Santiago Lopez - Coast to Coast Tactical

Episode 104: Competitive Shooting and Training with Santiago Lopez

Join us as we sit down with Santiago Lopez of Coast to Coast Tactical to discuss his journey from casual shooter to competitive shooter and firearms instructor. Santi shares his experiences in USPSA competition, his approach to teaching, and his passion for helping others improve their shooting skills. With his infectious energy and humble attitude, Santi provides valuable insights into the world of competitive shooting and firearms training.

Timeline:
00:00:00 - Introduction to Santi's background and early shooting experiences
00:02:00 - How Santi got into shooting and his transition from California to Florida
00:05:00 - First formal firearms training experience and instructors who influenced him
00:07:00 - Transition from student to instructor and teaching philosophy
00:13:00 - Discussion of upcoming Texas State USPSA Match and future teaching plans
00:15:00 - Experience with USPSA competition and training with world champion Eric Grauffel
00:19:00 - Current competition setup: Walther PDP Steel Frame and equipment discussion
00:29:00 - Experience at Alliance Range Day event in Ohio
00:34:00 - USPSA classifications and competition divisions
00:49:00 - Overview of match opportunities in the Houston area
00:52:00 - Upcoming class schedule and social media presence
00:54:00 - Discussion about the firearms training industry and social media dynamics

Don't miss this engaging conversation about competitive shooting, training methodology, and the importance of enjoying the learning process in both competition and defensive shooting.

Find out more about Big Tex Ordnance at bigtexordnance.com

Transcript

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It was very humbling to be within those guys and that level of skill. I was the worst shooter in that class. And I'm like, wow, there's a lot of work to do. So now it's just treated that way. I go on my own, you know, I, I, I go to my own level of skill and I try to do my best that I can to accomplish a good, a good run, a good stage. And then you slowly start growing. Right. Because, um, you can't just go and try to go fast and, you know, And try to be the best because then you'll just crash. Welcome to the Big Tech Soreness podcast. I am Ike. We have Chris, Tara, and our guest today is Santiago. Thank you for having me, man. Coast to coast tactical. Yep. Or I guess Santi. We're on a, we're on an informal basis. Yeah, we're friends now. Yeah. We're all friends here. Nobody's in trouble. They call me Santi. Nobody's in trouble. Nobody's in trouble. Santiago, what would I do? Uh, but yeah, so he's, he's down here teaching a class tomorrow at, uh, BTO range and Sunday and Sunday. Yeah. Two classes back to back. Separate. Separate. Yeah. Just one day classes. Uh, I like to divide them that way because sometimes I get people who are very, very new and I don't like them going to the next day and then stalling the whole, you know, the class. So I just try to keep it that way first, you know. What, what, what, what are you teaching? So Saturday I'm teaching injured fundamentals, just basic stuff, you know, like grip size trigger, you know, how to be efficient with those. And then the next day I'm teaching injured performance, which is. Kind of the same thing as the first day, but enhancing speed, right? Like just doing everything from the holster, going from the draw and how to find those index points to actually execute at a higher rate. Cool. So, so we were talking about a little bit earlier, but we want to share with the audience, of course. What's your, what's your background? Cause you've got an interesting background on how you kind of got into shooting. So how, how, start there. How'd you get into shooting? Okay, so I've always liked guns, right? Um, I've always had BB guns and stuff like that when I was young. And, uh, I, I wanted to be a SWAT guy. Like I wanted to be a law enforcement officer, but I just never thought of going to, you know, the, the, uh, The academy or anything like that. That's when I was young. And then, um, my parents never liked firearms. They were like, yeah, we don't, as long as you leave them under my roof, you're not going to have any guns. I'm like, all right, cool. So you is going to seem surprising, but my first firearm I bought in California. So I went to California, uh, for, for work. So I started acting and moved to California. I lived there for a while in 2015. I bought my first gun for home defense. I had no idea. How to use it or nothing. I would just go to the range and do what everybody does. You know, just stand on the line, load, and just try to get the X. You know, taking all my time and I will do like every other month, right? Um, COVID happened, all this stuff happened. And then I moved back to Florida and then Florida. It's like madness with guns. It's like freedom, you know? So I see all my friends and all these guys that are starting to me because of social media and they're, we're creating content and I see suppressors. Like for me, guns used to be, I thought it was. Glock, Smith Wesson, Walther, and SigSauer. Like I was like, yeah, those are guns. That's it. But then I started seeing like how big the industry is and how many products are there and all these different accessories and stuff that it was just like, mind blown. Um, so I started getting into the whole content creation stuff, just photos and, you know, just, you know, reviewing things. And, uh, I met this one guy, Max, um, He introduced me to the whole practical things. So we started going to the range together at an outdoor range. And then he started making me do drills from the whole sort of like transitions control attack. Cause he's taking, he's taking classes with JJ Ricasa and a bunch of other people. So he was teaching me all this stuff that he's learned. And I'm like, wow. Whoa, this is incredible. Like I want to do this, you know, like, so I started telling her, do you, you have to bring me every time you come? Like, I want to, I want to do this. So I, I went deep in that rabbit hole. Then I took my first class ever, 2021, November, 2021. I took my first class with, um, Joe Farewell, uh, Donovan Moore and VLOX. He taught rifle, uh, Joe taught, uh, taught two gun and, uh, Uh, point what Donovan taught, uh, from concealment, just pistol. So I had the best of the, like the three things in one weekend, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and I'm like, dude, this is awesome. Like it was like, that's when I decided, I'm like, I gotta do this. Like, I want to do this for sure. Um, I started, you know, going in the range. I started taking a lot more classes. That's how I also got into, um, I took class with Rick Crawley from, um, Achilles heel. I took a class with a modern samurai projects. That was back in the day. Um, and it was just so much like, she's letting all sink in. Right. And I loved it, dude. That's kind of how I got into shooting. And when I say I went to a rabbit hole, I was shooting maybe two or 3000 rounds a week. Like I was going like mostly every day because I hadn't, I worked from home. I did a lot of social media marketing for a company in California. So I had a lot of free time because we were in the California schedule. So I started working from nine to five, which is noon to like eight, 9 PM. So I had all the morning for myself. So I will wake up early, go to the range until like 11 ish. And now we'll just go and shoot. So what made you decide to go from, you know, participant to instructor? So, when I took my CCW class, like, everybody when they buy a gun, it's, you know, to protect themselves, right? Oh, I want to get a gun to protect myself. When I did that course, I felt like there was a lack of instruction. There was basically like, okay, here's the movie, this is the law, this is what you do, this is how you pull the trigger, and that's it. Just point in a safe direction, and you're good. I'm like, yeah, this is not going to work. I didn't even shoot. Like you were a man that like you're, you're, you're supposed to shoot at least like five to 10 rounds just to make sure you know how to pull the trigger. I didn't even do that. Cause the line was so long, it was 25 people in a classroom. And then we will close. In that, in that, um, in the range, we had to make a line. I'm like, do you, I don't want to do this. And they just gave him my diploma, my certificate. So for me, that was like, that's insane. Like, this has got to change, you know? Like, so I started taking a lot more classes and like, I saw how, so now I, when I take a class, I take it more as an instructor base, like, okay, how do they teach, how are they teaching things? You know, how, what's their curriculums? Like, how are they, you know, um, how are they, like, uh, how are they communicating their. Their techniques and all this other stuff. And it's very, it's very, you know, interesting how everybody has their own way to teach the same thing, but they just come up with their own terms and they come up with like their own names for classes and it just. It's fascinating and I loved it. And then I started teaching my, my friends first, like we will go to the range. I'll, um, I'll have them, you know, bring their guns and stuff, you know, teach them how to shoot. What, what I knew at the time and I see a lot of improvement within a couple of hours and I'm like, dude, this is great. Like, I love this. Like, I, I, like for me, it's very passionate to see somebody that come from, from, uh, how they came into a class to how they leave. It's fulfilling. It's like, it's good. And they feel good because they see the improvement throughout the class. So, they always want to come back, so I feel like I do have a good thing going on, I enjoy it, and you know how people say, like, if you enjoy what you do, it never becomes a job, that's right. Exactly. That's cool. Yeah, so that's actually why I'm taking your class on Sunday. Let's go! To see how you, you know, how you do it. What does Santi do that's different from everybody else? Yeah, well, I like, I like to make it fun, um, I have a curriculum, but it's never the same because I always try to accommodate different people who are in the class. Yeah, it's really hard to have a set curriculum when you don't know exactly what proficiency levels are going to be attending or who you're going to have in the class. So I like to just keep it open. You know, open book and see, you know, what would, what are we going to do? I know what the, the, the points that I want to hit and how am I going to get there? Right. So, uh, it's going to be fun. There's, there's only a few people there, but that's for me, it's better because now I can actually have one on one time with everybody. And I know for a fact that they're going to leave a lot of information out of that class, so. Well, the good thing is, is now that you've come, you know, or once you've come and, you know, everybody's taken the class, and, you know, they're going to tell their friends, so when you make it back to Texas next time, your class will be a lot fuller. Yeah, 100%. I mean, I've always, I've always thought about it like, An investment, right? Like there's, I just started teaching a year ago, like a year and a half ago. And, um, you know, a lot of people didn't want to take my class because, Oh, what's your background? Well, I'm like, just civilian. Uh, you know, I want a law enforcement officer or an ex military duty, you know? So it really, it's hard to get into that industry when you don't have that background. Well, even a lot of ranges won't let. You know, outside instructors come in to teach. That's one of the reasons that I'm really happy that I work for BTO. Cause we actually talked about that. We've talked about this. Yeah. So I've, I was planning to, I've been trying to find a range out here to come and teach because I have some people that, you know, they always all sound you, when are you coming to Texas? I'm like, I don't know, man. Like, I don't know where to shoot. So I reached out to a bunch of places and they're like, Oh yeah, we're on, we don't do outside instructors. So I'm like, okay, this is over. I'm not doing it anymore. And then, um, yeah. And then. Yeah. I found you guys and I reached out my, Hey, you guys do something. Yeah, let's go. I'm like, Oh, so great. So the fact that you guys are open to that, it's, it's amazing because not just that, you know, you bring people from like. But maybe don't know like the range here that come from the instructors, but also it's like you give us an in, and I really appreciate that because you guys is all you guys are all up for it. So it's important for the community just in for myself to be able to grow to have people like you guys. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it definitely benefits the range, but it's also, you know, like you said, a service to the community, you know, we want to make sure that our community has access to the best instruction there is. Well, if you hit the if you hit the instruction. With the same energy that you put off here, which I'm sure you do. It's going to be a good class. Cause like, I don't know if it's bleeding through to the audience through video or, but Santee, you put off an energy and you can tell you really, really enjoy this. Yeah, man. I love this. So like, dude, I, I, I only have a couple of people, right. In the class and I'm. Just as stoked as if I would have 20 people, because I know it's like, this is a, this is like a long process. It's like building a company. When you build a company, it's, you know, you have those first couple of years that it's a hustle. You got to like really work your way in. You got to show them who you are, what you're capable of. And then they will go out and be like, Oh yeah, I took a, I took a class with Santi. He's great. You should take a class. So next time I come, I know I won't have eight, but I'll have maybe. You know, 15, you know, and so on, and people who've been doing this for a while, for years, that's probably how they grew. Right. Um, so yeah, man, I'm super stoked just to have the opportunity to be here and show what I am able to do and maybe help some people learn some stuff, man. That's awesome. That's fantastic. Yeah. Yeah, now I wish I would have scheduled Sunday I'm like trying to like try Angry do we want to make trouble am I gonna be how angry do I want to make my wife? Because I Am I I'm doing Veterans Day Road March tomorrow, so I'm already Done for half the weekend. Yeah. I probably won't be able to walk tomorrow afternoon. So if you'd like that everyone, but yeah, man, Sunday is going, Sunday, Saturday and Sunday sounds good. I wish we could put this. That's the bad thing about having a new instructor. Yeah. On the podcast is we can't get the podcast out fast enough for it to have any effect on this batch of signups. Right. Yeah. But we talked about it earlier. You're coming back to Texas for the Texas state match. So, uh, I was going to talk to you about it. Yeah. Okay. So, we're, me and a buddy of mine, we're coming to shoot the Texas State for USPSA. It's in, actually, it's a little bit south of Houston, but it's, you know, it's everything. I don't mind driving a couple hours. So, I was going to tell you, maybe, you know, the match is on Friday, April 25th. So, I was, you know, thinking of coming Saturday, Sunday, just like today. Yeah, let me look at the calendar and, you know, I'm sure, I think, I think April's pretty good. We'll get you in there. Still a couple months out. Yeah. So. That transitions to my next question perfectly. When did you go from shooting with your buddies on the weekend training? And you're like, okay, now we'll make the leap to USPSA. So it was, so I first started with IDPA. Right. Cause I thought it was slower. You know, a lot of old people there don't get me. I love you guys. But, um, yeah, it's, it was just a lot slower. Right. So for me, it was kind of a way to kind of learn a similar way to running and like, uh, shooting and moving and like looking for a way to shoot a stage or whatever, even though they have a lot more rules than USPSA, but, um, You know, I went to my first match and I did pretty well in IDPA. So I was like, okay, this is cool. I, I, I can do this. Right. And I associated USPSA to the same, you know, level of difficulty that it was IDPA. I'm like, Oh, I can do this. I did pretty good. I can probably do good there. Yeah, it's not going to happen. It was completely different. It's very, very hard, um, to shoot at the level that these guys shoot. Like there's, I went to my first USPSA match I did. I actually went in and very confident and I got destroyed by kids and I'm like, yeah. This is not going to work. I need to work on this. So, um, that's when I started, like, I need to work on like shooting and moving and all this USBSA things. So I have my friend Buck and I will just, you know, train, um, every once in a while, we'll get together in the range and we start doing exercises that he learned, um, from like other instructors, like JJ Ricasa, once he came, like the confirmation levels and all this stuff that, um, it's very important in a, in a, in it's. Implanting well with the whole competition competitive shooting and um, I did my first USPSA. My second USPSA match was actually like a year, like a year and a half later than my first one. Cause I, I was, I just knew it wasn't going to work. Um, then I started doing classes with, um, uh, I did a class with Eric Crafel. I don't know if you know who he is. He's the best in the world. He's been, World champion 27 years in a row. And, uh, he's a French guy. He just comes here and destroys everybody. He dips, you know, he actually, that naturally he was, you know, it's insane how he shoots. So we took a, there was a bunch of us taking a class with him. Like even the people that I teach, I take their classes, like the instructors that I go with, like they went to the class. They were students with me in the class. So it was very humbling to be within those guys. And that level of skill, I was the worst shooter in that class. And I'm like, wow, there's a lot of work to do. So now it's just treated that way. I go on my own, you know, I, I, I go to my own level of skill and I try to do the best that I can to accomplish a good, a good run, a good stage. And then you slowly start growing, right? Because, um, you can't just go and try to go fast and, you know, and try to be the best because then you won't. You will just crash and burn. So, to have a really good, um, to have a good, how do I say this? Like a good way to figure out where you are. Is to go into like a big match, a level two match, level three match, and just shoot to your capabilities, right? Don't push it. Just shoot normal. And then you see where you play is within the pack with all these guys. And that's how you're like, okay, I'm shooting 60 percent of, you know, the best of the best I got work to do. Even when you're like, Oh, I shot 80%. Like there's a lot of work to do because that the closer you get to the top, the harder starts getting to literally shrink. Like even when you're at 90 percent to get, to shoot like 97, 98 percent from the best. It's just insanely hard and it's a lot of dedication. So I know there's, there's this one police, uh, this, this one cop, Eric Shaw, he's an active cop and he shoots from retention holster. And he's like one of the best in the country. I'm not like, I'm not even kidding. Tell me one of the guys you were talking about earlier. No, no, this is another dude. This guy is just insane. That's crazy. Yeah, he took the class with Eric Graffel and he was right next to me. I didn't know who he was. And I was like, okay, this is, you know, he's, he's a cop. I wasn't expecting to be fat. You know, so he just pulled up his gun and started shooting. His groups were like this at 25 yards. And I'm like, dude, that's insane. Like, how is, you know, it's crazy. I want to be there. Yeah. I can't even imagine trying to shoot a match from like a level three. Yeah. Like even, even if it adds a 10th of a second, well, your draw your, your, that's an overall match time. If you do 10 stages, you've now added a second and you haven't even fired around to your, to your time. And that's, that's huge when it comes to like a really high level USPSA match. Yeah. It's crazy because if you think about it, it's not so the shooting, it's not, it's no longer like an issue. It's other things of coming to play like stage planning, like how to be efficient on a stage, how to run, you know, how to, you know, where are you going to do your reload? Do you know, like, how am I shooting you? How's that transition from this target to this one? And all those little things, they add up. And they add up to where in a whole in a full stage it could be like, you know a whole second Yeah, right, you know even more like even two sets two seconds Yeah, the shooting is just a small portion is like, you know, how to move and where to move and yeah. Yeah. I struggle with that. Yeah. It is just a lot of things to in your mind, you know, going like the whole plan that you do and the whole, like the level of skill, like the faster you register, right? Because when you're shooting fast and you're not used to going that fast and you don't know what you're looking for, right? Until you start doing it in practice and you start getting used to that speed, then it becomes normal. Yeah. Yeah. But then it's not normal because if you compare yourself to where you are now, to where you were, you know, like maybe six months earlier, you see a substantial difference. And that's when I tell people, you got to enjoy the process. You can't push it. You can't compare yourself with like people who've been doing this for a while, because then you're just always going to crash. You're always going to like, not crash, but like, you're always gonna put yourself down, you know? So I always feel like everybody has their own path. And he takes longer for other people and just, you know, just enjoy it, enjoy the process and learn. What, uh, what setup are you running right now? What's your, what's your go to gun? So I have a Walther PDP, the steel frame, and, uh, I have the Apex from, um, tier one concealed. I love that holster because it's very, so I run from concealment. So I run matches from concealment. I don't use the old WB stuff. Um, because I believe in, you know, like why we go back to like, why am I carrying your gun? Right. I carry a gun to protect myself and my loved ones. And by shooting competition like this, it is allowed. It just put me in a place where I feel so much confident, you know, like if I can do that in a stage, like I know for a fact that can defend myself. In a scenario where, you know, like hope to God it doesn't happen ever, but I know what I'm capable of. Um, so I, I choose that holster because it's very modular. You can, um, you can literally, you know, Trump's and screws and adjust it the way you want to. Like if you're, if it's, you only have one holster and you want to conceal, you want to run it for every day, you can loosen up the, the Mac, the Mac patch, and you can just push it in and it conceals. But then if you wanted to go for competition, you can lose up those screws again and push it back up. Now it shows more so it's, you know, angle. So when you reload, it's easier to grab the gun. It's awesome. Um, Donovan actually came up with that idea with the guys on tier one and dude, it's, I think it was spot on to what we needed to, 'cause usually the mags are pointing up. This one you can leave it, have it up, you can tilt it, you can push it out, you can do whatever. So it's pretty awesome. So that's my setup. They've been putting out good stuff for a long time. Huh? What optic do you use? Oh, I was just going to say that. Uh, I run, I run the XL from Vortex. Okay. Yeah. I love that thing. I first, when I spoke to them, I'm like, yeah, I don't know. Cause I used to run the ST cause I like the smaller doc, but I haven't Dixmethysm, so I see the light very, yeah, that's what my wife had. Yeah. Yeah. So a starburst, I never thought about using like one for a five because there's just, it's big, you know, but then. I gave it a shot. They were like, yeah, let's, you know, we'll send you one. Try it on. Just try it and let us know how it feels. I'm like, okay, cool. The window is huge. So it's perfect. And I can thin the dot down to where I can still see a solid dot and I don't see a burst. So I, you know, I feel like I like the five now more than I used to like my two. MOA. So that's what I run. That's, that's why I like the hollow sun dots. Yeah. That's why I'm a huge fan of hollow sun dots is because I have an astigmatism and they are so freaking clean. Just how they project the, the, uh, whatever they do to project the dot on the glass works for me. Same. Yeah. I run the 507 comp. Yeah. They're super clean. I even, I put, uh, what was it? A 515 I think of the rifle, one of their new rifle optics on that, uh, cobalt built. I did. And so it has like the EOTech type reticle in it. I think is super, super clean. The only thing I don't like about it is it's like the aim point style. So it's like a small window, but I'm going to be hard pressed not to put another one on another build. Cause it's so clean. Cause if I look at an EOTech. Or like, uh, uh, my old competition, again, my 34 had a DT, uh, Delta Point Pro on it, right? Oh, yeah. And it's like, which, which one of these, like, starburst points do I want to pick as my aiming point on it because of my astigmatism? Yeah. And with the Holo Sensei, don't do that. I've never tried the, uh, 507 Comp. I actually heard good things about it. But, um, I feel like the, the, like the Vortex, the Vortex XL, the window is slightly bigger. It's kind of taller. Yeah. And, uh, I don't know. I mean, for me, it works better. The, the thought where you're saying about the dot with the five MOA, he doesn't do that, right. It doesn't, I don't see. The burst with the smaller dot, I did see it, but it wasn't because like the glasses, whatever it's because of like, I'm, I use glasses for everything and I will put the brightness very high so I can actually see it in the sun, but then that's when I started seeing the burst. Yeah. Stigmatisms are hard to, to deal with. I just thought for a long time that EOTechs weren't clean. Yeah. I realized that I don't see them how they actually are and they are clean. But it's just my eyes that are jacked up. Yeah. Supposedly the green doesn't give you, I don't, I don't know. I've heard that. I don't, I've never tried to give that, people say that, but I don't, I don't agree. For me, it, it doesn't stills. I've heard both ways. Like I, I like the red. I can't speak to it 'cause I don't have a stigmatism. Three out of four people in this room have astigmatism. I feel lucky now. Taillights at night are just crazy. That's the other thing. Like my wife was always, hates driving. Maddie hates driving. And finally, like there's like a picture on the internet or whatever that shows like what the taillights look like to y'all, I guess. Um, and it's, I was like, man, I don't know how you, how you do it. It's just like starbursts everywhere. And I had no idea. All right. So we're not going to talk to Ike anymore. I feel special over here. Yeah. I can't drive at night with all my glasses. Yeah. Yeah. I always see just lights everywhere. Yeah. It gets, it definitely gets worse if I don't have my contacts in. Glasses aren't as good as my contacts, but yeah, it's typically is a definite challenge when it comes to Red Dot. Uh, is that the new Vortex Dot that they just came out with? Yeah. The XL. Yeah. Yeah. Do y'all have those at the range? I think so. We have. They might be out, but like, we've definitely had them. I've definitely seen them when they came in. We did a video on them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Vortex just doesn't Those dots don't move as well as like, the Trijicon's or the, the Hollow Sun's for us over here. Yeah. Not there yet. And which, which Walther are you shooting? The PVP Steel Frame. Is it the The match. The match one. Yeah, the long one. Yeah, those are nice. Yeah, I run it from concealment, but that's like, I only run it for, for range. I don't carry that. I carry the polymer one, the four and a half. Yeah. Cause it's the same grip, same thing, just different length and different weight. So yeah. Yeah. Same angle of arms and everything. You know, you get the reps with the, with the better one and then, yeah. I mean, no, I get reps with my polymer too. I just like to compete with the heavier one because she's It just returns to zero faster. Yeah, it's a lot flatter, I bet. It's really flat, and it's just so comfortable to shoot, you know? And the weight just, I don't know, I just love it for competition. I've got two of the, uh, what's the ones they just released with the Parker Mountain Machine Comp? Oh, that's the, uh, that's the, that's the PDP Pro E, I think it is. Something like that. Yeah, I've got two of those on order. Nice. Probably really hard press not to get them. Yeah. Yeah. They look nice. They do look nice. They're big people really talking about them. We need to get one for the, I guess I'll probably end up sending one of those to the range anyway. So what, and so tier one. Vortex optics, Walter PDP. Yep. And lock grips. Okay. Yeah, those things. Have you run them? Have you heard? No. So, the standard bogeys, they're very hard, like, they're sharp. So, I have a bunch of calluses on my hands because of how much I press to it. But, it's, they're perfect because sometimes when it rains, man, or when you're sweating, I use shock, but it comes off, right? In the middle of a match, if you're doing a reload or whatever. You know, it just, it helps you stay on the gun because they're so aggressive. And I love it. The, the lock grips, uh, standard bogeys are good. They also have another ones that are palm swells. They're, they have a little bit of fatness on the sides, so you can put your, um, your, your palms kind of just push in for the, they're comfortable, but I'm not used to them. Yeah. So I just, I stuck to the other ones. Oh, you're shooting for, or you're shooting, uh, hot munitions. Yeah. So I shoot the one 47s. I love the ammo, man. It's just very soft. Um, they're 147 poly. It's, it's what I shoot for pretty much everything, you know, practice, uh, range, my carry ammo for competition is very reliable. I've never had any issues with it. So. I like shooting 147s, Yeah, 124 is good. Um, I don't, there, there's, there's still a little bit of, there's still a little spicy. Yeah. But, they're, they're, they're, they're decent. It's not like, 124 grain, it's not bad at all. And you said, uh, we were talking about it earlier too, uh, when we were talking about ammo. Uh, You went to Ohio Range today? I did. Did you go as an instructor or did you go as a student? No, no. I went as an attendee. Bless you. So, it was my first time ever going to Ohio Range that I've never been. And, dude, it was a really good experience. We drove there from, uh, Florida. Oh, wow. How far is that? It was like 18 hours. Yeah, it was gnarly. But we rented a van. It was an experience because it was four dudes. You know, uh, we rented a van and we wrote on the windows like, Oh, free ammo, Venmo us for the bachelorette party, whatever. We got 10 bucks. Nice. We drove all the way up there and, um, we got an Airbnb. It was a firehouse, like a, like a, it used to be an old, like an actual firehouse and they remodeled it and put like beds and stuff. So you have like the poles. So it was just funny. We did like a mini, like getaway, like, um, ending. You know, at the end of the weekend, party thing, a bunch of dudes come in and drink and hang out. But the event itself, it was amazing. It was well organized. I mean, Rick does really, really good on that. Um, a lot of good instructors in there, the brands, how he does, you know, like to interact with brands. It's, it's epic because it's not just two days of training. You have a whole day that you go there on Friday to just see the booth. You know, you run, you go to the booth, you shoot their products. Like you literally, uh, see all this, all the stuff that they have. And um, you have, they have like competitions to win things and it's fun because it's very interactive. If, you know, like for example, tier one in monsoon, uh, they had a bay. And they made a stage and over a hundred people like ran the stage. And it was super fun because it's, you have all these guys from all these different types of shooting, like tactical things, USPSA stuff. And everybody just went in and shot the stage. So they have a little bit of a taste of like what he feels like. And there was a lot of people, even including one of the guys that came with me. He's also a copy. He's like, dude, I like this. And I'm like, Oh, you got the bug. And yeah, man, now he's, now he's actually, you know, going to my classes in, in, in South Florida and, uh, he's ready for his first match. I was like, dude, just go and do it. Like there's, there's, you know, there's nothing wrong if anything uses, you don't know where you're at, you know, and you have something to work from. So on that note, like if somebody wanted to never done any kind of competition before, what would you, what would your advice be to them if they wanted to get the USPSA Um, just know the rules, you know, um, you know, don't, don't touch your gun when they don't tell you, you know, like, this is how to sign in, you go to practice core, um, you look for a local match, local ranges near your, near your area that have a USPSA matches, you sign up and, uh, you know, just, you have to be mindful of your safety. That's the most important thing, the shooting, the stage itself, you know, just go and shoot every target. And kind of have fun, you know, and that's asked a lot of questions to the guys are in your squad, you know, how do you do this? Are you doing it? You know, like, they will definitely help you. People in this industry are very helpful. Um, that's one thing that I like about it. You can talk to all these guys and they'll basically just give you pointers or they'll teach you, they'll guide you along the way, you know? So it's, it's fun. Just, it's a matter of you literally just having the initiative and going. And from there you start hanging out with them, you start seeing like how everything runs and then you can practice on your own time and kinda, you know, you get the bug, like I said, and then you're just going to start going every, every month, every week or whenever they have the matches there. Yeah, it's been, it's been way too long since I shot a USPSA match, but there for a while I was shooting, I was shooting a monthly match and then doing like a weekly, like a midweek class. And then when we transitioned down, when I transitioned here, we were shooting, I can't remember if we had a weekly match or a monthly match at Saddle. I don't remember. There, there was a monthly match. There was. They still have, I think they have it now. They stopped it for a while. Yeah. Yeah. So I set that up and did that for a while, but I still, I still haven't shot the match over here. I think I've shot it once or twice. Yeah. It's just like, I just need to make time for it, you know? Yeah. Well I'm, I'm over there on Wednesdays and you know, I, I try, I shoot it at least like, well, I haven't shot it in a while, but I try to do it at least once a month. Yeah. Oh, you guys do matches at the range? Yeah, we do the Texas Outlaw match. We do that every Wednesday. Oh, how cool. Pacifiers too. We do, yeah. Once at the, I think it's the last Wednesday of the month we do A-U-S-P-S-A, all the, all classifier. I need to do a classifier. Yeah. Just get ranked. Yeah. You have to do, I think it's the best of, uh, like five, best of eight, I think. So if you're not classified, it's the, it is the best four of six. Ah. And then after that, then it's like a rolling. Then after that you, it will, they'll take the best six of eight. Gotcha. Or 10. Now, I'm not sure where it is. Whenever I feel like I know how the classifier system goes., they change it. If they change, it's not that they change it. But I never learned the actual, like, cause everybody has, Oh no, no, no. That's not going to count because they have to drop that last one that you did. Oh, okay, cool. So now I'm just counting the other one. And then when I do the math, I'm like, Oh yeah, I made it. And then I see the results and yeah, no, they dropped something else. So I'm like, why did this happen? Then ask somebody else and have another explanation. I'm like, yeah, dude, I'm just going to, I'm just going to go shoot. I'm just going to shoot it. And whatever happens happens. So you, you in carry optics right now? I'm in carry optics. Yeah. I wonder how many people have entered, entered, like went straight into carry optics in USPSA now. Cause I mean, optics is, we talk about it every time, but like you will find probably more optics on pistols nowadays than you would. Well, it depends on like your age group, I guess, probably do. I don't know. Like look at just like with the new, Like if you go out and buy a gun, just whatever it is, Walther, Glock, SIG, HK, like it's probably going to be milled for a red dot at this point in time. Like SIG actually went away with all, 365 models and 320s that didn't have, um, you know, the, the plate system or whatever. Um, now I don't, I think SIG completely ended all the, at least on the 365 and 320 models. Like you can't get it without a optics ready. Yeah, that's smart. Um, so you were saying like a lot of people going to carry optics, right? It just, it's not just carry optics. You can do limited optics, which is a whole different, which is new, right? It just, yeah, it's new. It's like, uh, you should like 2011 with an optic. So, uh, you can shoot or 2011 and carry optics. So there's a Mac. Is there a magazine restriction? It's not a magazine restriction. It's just I'm not see that's the part where I'm like I don't really know much about it But I think it's because of there have some standards on I don't know what the rules are all I know is that the the limited optics is basically just 211 guns and You have him with an optic, but I can if I wanted to shoot a limited optics I can go with my gun. Mm hmm, but you can't go to carry out Yeah, right I'm going to look it up now. Yeah. The most popular division currently in USPSA is carry optics division. Yeah. I think it's a really good division to actually like see where you're at. Cause there's so many shooters in there. So when you just, you know, do a match or whatever and you get ranked, it's like, okay, out of like, you know, a hundred people, it's like, okay, I was like 50 cool. I want to look through it. So somebody, somebody, somebody. Tara, ask a good question. While I look and find out. While I look and find out the uh, the actual difference. We need like a Joe Rogan how they have like the dedicated researcher. Right, Jamie. Yeah, he pulls it up on the screen and stuff. We're not there yet. So Santi, tell me something that you do in your classes that you don't think that anybody else does. What's like, what's yours? I don't know man, it's very hard. Um, I don't know. So, most of the classes that I've seen, they're Or how do you do things differently? Like, what, you know, what do you do differently, or Um, so, like I said, I don't have like a, I have a curriculum, but it's not dialed in. Like, I don't go, you know, word by word. But what I say, I know a lot of people do that. Um, I like to go off the students. So if I, I start a certain way to kind of see where everybody's at. And then from there I would just, you know, it, it goes based on their progress. Cause I don't want to like give you stuff that you're, I know you're not ready yet. Right. Cause it's just like a liability, not just for me, but like for everybody else. So, um, that's one thing. The other, I have a class in South Florida that it's called drills. Okay. And it's just, I have a bunch, I don't know if you guys get them too, but there's a bunch of guys that they just want to shoot. Right. Right. They don't, they don't really care about, Oh, this is how you grab this. They just want to shoot. And they, like, they know the basics, they're safe, but they just want a running gun. Right. So I have a, I have this class where I just set up stages and, um, we run the stages a couple of times and I'll give them pointers. Okay. What did you do there that you didn't do here? You know, like, Oh, I would have done this different. Okay. Do you think it's going to be beneficial? We talk about it. We all have a group conversation and we run it again, the way they wanted to run it. And then we compare times and the hit factor, you know, the hit factor is and stuff. Yeah. So it's time divided by points. So we get the hit factor, we see the difference, and then we see if it was more efficient and if it was not efficient. So it goes more into the competition aspect of it just because they like running and gunning. But I also try to implement a little bit of. this so they can learn something new while they're also having fun doing this other thing. I want to do that when you come back. I want to do something like that at this. Uh, so I have, so I, I started buying a bunch of stuff just from my training, but I also like to bring it to the range when I teach a class, like I have a swinger, I have like a bunch of steel and little, little poppers and stuff like that, like activators. Um, I've never really seen people have all this, all those things for class, unless the range provides it. Um, I like to bring him all the time when I'm local. I don't know how I'm going to bring it here, but, um, but yeah, it's, I think it's, that's one of the things that in my local range, I don't think anybody's doing. Yeah. Well, being that we have a match that we run every week, we do have a lot of those things over there. Oh, okay. Well, that's a whole different story. Like we've got poppers. We don't have, we don't have the Texas star. We've got some of those things. Those things are so hard to shoot. Yeah. Yeah. I'm actually really good at it. Yeah, if you shoot it right, it's not that bad. The one thing is, like, you know how, okay, so it's like you can shoot it, right? But then you have a whole stage and they have that incorporated. Now you have to make a plan, right? If you shoot the wrong There's the wrong plate because you didn't meant to shoot that you're done. Like you gotta just figure out how to shoot the rest of it, which is happening to me in the last match that I went. Um, I shot the whole thing in that one. It just started spinning and I'm like, Oh my God, dude. It throws off your reload plan and everything, you know? Cause you had planned on a certain amount of rounds. Yeah. So that's exactly what happened. So I, it took me three makeups to get it and then I ran to my next position and I'm like, Oh, Fuck I have to reload. Yeah. So yeah, that was my first stage in the match and I'm like, yeah, I started wrong. Have you saw those, the dual Yeah, dual ones that, that once you started Oh, like on a And they do. Yeah, they do. They start doing this, the, the. They're spinning and then they're mounted on arms. So you got two Texas stars, like spinning on an arm, two different acts. The arm is, yeah, the arm it's, it's nuts. That is crazy. Yeah. Yeah. That was from TA. I don't, I don't know who makes, I've just saw it on the internet and I was like, that is evil. You know, it's evil. They have this swinger. They call it, they call it the, um, um, holy monkey. Have you seen it? So you know how the swingers just goes like this, right? This one goes. Instead of going like this, it goes like this. Oh, yes. He can't sometimes he just turns like that. Oh my God. It's so hard to shoot it. Cause you, the only time you can actually shoot it, it's activator and just the first time he goes out. If not, you just gotta like catch it to where you have to wait. You waste so much time just like figuring out where to get, where to hit it. I've always seen those dudes. There's like, So, they, they plan the stage. They run over there, shoot the mover to activate it, and then they shoot the rest of the stage to come back and get whatever the thing was swinging because it stopped moving now, but then they have those ones that disappear, right? You've got the, the, the popper that you engage it and it goes up once and it goes back down behind a no shoot and you can't shoot it again. Like you have to shoot it on its first, first rise. That's a, that's a mean one. Have you ever saw the one that uh, charges you? If you ever saw the Mm-Hmm. The, uh, my buddy Jim Shanahan up in Missouri had the one and it was on, like you had to set up a track Yeah. And somebody would hit it. And it was the, the, it was 21 feet. Oh yeah. And it charged you and it was fast and like you had to be on it to get it. Is that the one with a bear? Didn't have a bear on. It was, you could probably, it was PS a target. Oh really? I've never seen it. Yeah. It was fun. I've seen something like the ranges, like kind of like what saddle has, whatever with like the track and then like the target, you can make it charge you out of the saddle or somewhere else, another indoor ranch I shot at, but they had it like, where you could, I think there's might've been the arms room or something down in like league city. I don't know. Anyways, like the, you can make like the, the target retrieval, um, charge you and stuff. That's crazy. There's so many things. You always come up with some new things, some new product that incorporates, you know, In the matches and stuff like that. They always make it more complex and more complex and uh It's really hard to keep up You know because you think you say oh, yeah, I know how to shoot swingers and then they put this thing just moving everyone But at least if you're shooting a classifier though, if i'm still I mean they could have changed it Because apparently they've changed all the divisions. I have no idea how it's set up now, even though I looked at it uh, but like I don't think there's any movers on any of the classifiers. It's all either still on and regular targets.'cause everybody's gotta be able to set up the same classifier. Yeah. So in the, in the same distance and have the same equipment. I think. Yeah. I don't, I didn't, I've never seen a mover in the classifier. I don't know them all. I don't think it's, but um, all the pacifiers that I've done is just static. Either they're static. There's one that you do movement, but the target is there. Yeah. But, um, yeah, they're very, they're very standard, I guess. Um, you know, there's some people who reach a certain level of like their, their, their class, you know, and USPSA through just shooting classifiers. I don't believe in that. I like when, you know, like you can get your first classification from a classifier, right? But. I think the right way to do it is shooting matches that are count as like a classifier, like level twos or level threes, and your match performance counts as a classifier. If, you know, there's certain, certain things are met, like three GMs in the classification that they have to shoot, uh, there have to be, uh, 50 people or more, I think, and then also those three GMs have to be perform at a nine, five or better. 95 percent and that it will start counting as a classifier. Like I went and shot area six and I shot, um, what was the second one that I shot? Georgia state. And those two counted as a classifier. So it goes into my record and he adds in the percentages of my classification. So there is a way to. To, you know, to reach a class while you're actually doing it by match performance, because you can really be, you can be a really good static shooter and get like, you know, all these classifications and just burn them all. You get a G right. You get a GM card and then you go to a match and then you have these A class dudes beating you and it's like, yeah. So it's, it's, it's just a matter of that, you know, like, where do you really want to be? Do you think by shooting classifiers, can you reach it? Sure, but can you, can you do mass performance as a G? That's a whole nother level. That is always extending too. We've talked about that. Yeah, it's a moving target. Yeah. No pun intended. Cause it's all, you know, dudes are getting better. Uh, and you're, you're like prime example of what we've talked about on the podcast before is younger guys coming in. And, you know, who, who was your first class, like major class? Yeah. that you took. It was uh, that Winter Paradise with uh, Joe Farewell, Donovan Moore and V Lux. Yeah, I mean like, you got three of the country's top shooters right there in class and that's the students first. Yeah. Actual major training class. That's the, the, the, the, you know, the skill level that's out there and that people have access to is, is better than it's ever, ever been. And probably in like it's golden era, whenever you look at like everything out there, like where we're at competition gear wise, uh, and then like, you know, military side of it to get involved in it, it's like, we're like in the golden age of training here. Oh yeah. Yeah. Agreed. And just like the access to matches too, like there's like, there's so many places you can go shoot a match. You can shoot a match every day of the week in the Houston area. Really? Yeah. I mean, it's a big area. Yeah, it's a huge area. If you don't mind driving. Houston area, not Houston proper. Yeah, but like in the Houston area. So like, there's a match, a USPSA match of some sort every night. That's awesome. It's crazy. If you want to drive, you can drive. Like if you've got the time and the money and that. I guess pretty much like two hours from wherever you are in Houston area, you can go and be at a match. Yeah. Yeah. Each, almost every weekend too, you can find a match in the Houston area. We're pretty lucky. That's pretty awesome, man. I mean, in Orlando, um, we do have matches, but it's not every day. I shoot, there's one match that I have to drive an hour and a half to clear water. It's called a whack. It's like a, it's like a very, there's four stages and they're all very hoser like stages. They're very close targets. Like the furthest one, I think it's like 15 yards. So everything is just hosing, right? Then that's every Tuesday, Friday, and the third Sunday of the month. Then you have, there's the other one, there's this one match that it's just for like beginners. It's, uh, Orlando gun club. And I like to go there because I use it as a way for me to, you know, show what I'm capable of and get students who are interested to like, take the class and like, because they see me shoot and they're like, Oh, dude, how do you did that? How do you do this? Or, you know, are you an instructor? I'm like, yeah, I teach over here. And then that's how can I, you know, You know, I put myself out there as well. So that's the one reason I do that match. But for like actually competitive, it's the whack, the one that I was talking about in Clearwater, there's one in Volusia, every, they have steel challenge and how other stuff, uh, that is also good for training. Um, and they used to have this other one right next to the Orange County Sherry's office that is called Central Florida Rifle and Pistol Club. But I guess that the guys that were, Actually running the matches. They're not doing it anymore because they weren't getting the help that they needed. So, but there's a lot of matches going around, but not like here, man. Every day. I wish I had that. We used to have, uh, the guys from Dissident Arms, you know, Michael and Lan. They would come and shoot the Sunday night match that we had at Saddle. After they shot another match, they would shoot a Sunday match somewhere in the Houston area and then on their way back, they would stop and shoot that match at Saddle and then be done. So they just shoot two matches in one day. Nice. Yeah. That's pretty lit. How many stages? Two matches in one day, man? That's a lot. Well, I mean, we would only, we'd have five or six stages at Saddle set up. And so they shoot five or six stages there and then whatever they shot during the day because around here, like, especially in the summertime, your matches are usually over just a little past, you know, a little after lunch, if not before, because they try to get them in and out and done before it's super hot. So, cause it gets hot. Billy. Tell me about it. Yeah, I was gonna say you're, you're in Orlando. So y'all just have more alligators there. It's not as, it's not as humid here. I don't know, but yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty humid. So I did a class or not went out and trained with, uh, Ruben from paradox and some other people. Um, and we, we drove to Florida and you know, I'm checking the weather and I'm like, Oh, it's 85 degrees. Like no big deal. We got out there literally as soon as we got out of the truck, just sopping wet. I said, Oh my God. And one of the guys had an arctic freeze cooler and had kind of like lived over there. Solid red. I was like, man, I thought Texas was bad. Florida. Florida's gnarly. Yeah. Dude. And it's not just that. It's like, When you I go to matches and I shoot for concealment. So guess what? I have to grab my shirt wet Yeah, so as soon as I grab my shirt wet, it's just like my shot goes and that there goes my shock So now I'm ripping the gun and I'm slipping away Because I, the grip, like the lock grips is just for the gum. But when I grip this hand Mm-Hmm. it starts, yeah. Yeah. Slipping. Yeah. I always have to, very uncomfortable. Yeah. That's why I always put the chalk on, on the, I do the outside of the fingers.'cause that's, you know, where it makes up. Mm-Hmm. where you need a lot of the grip, the skin to skin. The skin to gun isn't as bad, but the skin to skin is, yeah. Yeah. Gets slippery. So just within like the greater Houston area, let's call it two hours.'cause I mean, uh, realistically. Galveston's, greater Houston area, right, right. 10 different U-S-P-S-A certified clubs. Nice. 10 different clubs. That's awesome. In the Houston area. Yeah. That's crazy. So what do you have next on the schedule? What's, what's coming up? So I have a Orlando on the 16th and then, um, I'm closing out with Miami. I have 21st, 22nd, 23rd and 24th in Miami. Oh, wow. Yeah, Miami is big for me. I used to live there. Okay. So, um. I have a lot of guys there that, you know, they just love coming once a month. What classes are you teaching? So, it's, for there, it's like my reoccurring guys. So, I teach just, uh, performance and the drills. Right. And then I have a couple of privates that I just, you know, tailor to them to what they want. So. Do you do any low light? I do not. My first, well, it's not going to be me teaching it. Uh, in, uh, February 2nd. You guys know Kyle Manzano? Masano Tactical. Name sounds familiar. He's part of the Howitzer guys. Okay. That's probably where. Yeah. So he's coming in into, uh, we're doing a collab class. We're teaching, I'm teaching pistol all day. He's teaching rifle, but then we added like a bonus for the Saturday night to do low light. So it was my first time I'd done low light before, but I've never been involved in the teaching aspect. So I'm stoked to have it. It's going to be fun. It'll be fun. So where can people find you on the social media? So I'm on Instagram as tactical dot Santi I like to say because it's kind of a joke. There's nothing tactical about my what I do All right. It's just the fact that I shoot for concealment. Well, we'll see Back in the day when I made that account, it was like, it sounded cool, you know, tactical zombie, you know, so I made it that way. But then now it's become, it's actually become a joke. Yeah, it was like, Oh, so like, I actually had some people like cops, like, Hey man, do you know any, you know, you guys, did you teach tactics? I'm like, yeah, no, dude. I have no idea anything about tactics. Oh, okay. I'll just start. Cause I saw your hat, you know, tactical or whatever. I'm like, yeah, no. Yeah. There's a funny story. Like Scott from modern samurai, you know, you know, Scott taking a class with him. Uh, a friend of ours, Jim Dexter. Hi, Jim. Uh, they were at a police range up probably up there in Illinois where Jim is, and part of the range requirement was you had to wear soft armor or whatever. I like to be on the range or whatever. So like Jim took a picture and was like a modern samurai intro into breaching or something like small unit, small unit room clearing tactics. Yeah. And like people lost their fricking mind. They're like, Scott, he's not a cop. He doesn't know anything about this. Or like, and it was just like a joke, you know? Uh, but yeah, the, the internet lost her mind. Some of it, I mean, it's serious, but like, that instance is like, you take it too, way too seriously. Like, why, why is Scott wearing body armor? Yeah. Yeah. It's like, he's police, teaching on a police range that requires it, you know? It's part of the insurance requirements of the, the, the, uh, the rules of the range. Dude, that's one of the things that I, like, like, I love this industry, but sometimes I feel like they're very harsh. Right. You know, like, their, their, their critiques is like, Sometimes I, I really hesitate to put stuff out there on the media because I'm like, you know, like, is, you know, they're going to come at me because you have instructors. Oh yeah. You have instructors posting things about teaching and like the way they do things or whatever. And then they have other ones just post another video, just did, you know, like ditching this dude because it's teaching the wrong things or whatever. And it just sucks. To be that, you know, like, I don't, I just feel like there's, there's got to be a way to like work together. Yeah. Like the whole CTT and centrifuge, uh, will petty and donor and donor controversy is just like every, like, you know, it's just like, it's so much trauma. It's like, why can't we just get along? Yeah. Or it should, or just keep it like. Personal, like reach out to the dude, you know, like don't put on social media. Yeah. Don't drag everybody else into it. You have a pay clicks or clicks, man. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like that, that's how it is. Like people are just looking for, for cloud, I guess, or not just cloud, but like, I don't know, I feel like I will, if somebody had anything to say about anything I do, I would rather have them reach out to me personally and just post something because I'm not going to, I'm not that dude that's going to make a video replying to what you said. Got other stuff going on. More important things. Yeah, I just don't want to fall into that game. Well dude, we definitely appreciate your time today. And you came in, so you came in two days, basically two days early before the class. Yeah. Uh. Almost missed the flight here. I know, dude. It sucked, but yeah. And your ammo didn't show up, but we got you, we got you covered. Yeah. We got you covered on that. Um, but we really appreciate you, man. Really appreciate it and looking forward to your class. I want to see if I can talk to wifey and to let me out on Sunday. Make it man. It's going to be fun. And uh, thank you guys for having me. Honestly, just the stuff that you guys do and being able to come here and teach. It's awesome. And not just me, like just having, you know, instructors come in and teach the community out here. It's huge. So. I really do appreciate what you guys are doing. Thank you, Tara. Thank you for your, for your time. Thanks for hooking us up. Absolutely. Appreciate it. And if you've watched this whole entire episode, I, I can't tell you the amount of energy that's in the room right now. That's really cool. That's why we do in person podcasts. You get a lot, you get to like, feel, I mean, it's not like, it's not like Joe Rogan energy, but I mean it's there. It's there. It's almost there. Just just below just a little bit But if you've watched this whole time appreciate it check out santi check out, uh tactical santi on instagram. We'll put all his links Uh to classes and everything look for him if you're in the local area Hopefully in april when he comes back sign up for the class and hit us up in the comments. Appreciate it