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The Big Tex Ordnance Podcast
This is the official Big Tex Ordnance Podcast where we talk about gear, training, and all things related to firearms and firearm accessories. The crew at Big Tex Ordnance is uniquely positioned to be able to interact with individuals from all corners of the firearms industry. Join us!
The Big Tex Ordnance Podcast
Inside the Machine: Crafting American Defense Rick Olsen, Killer Innovations
Rick Olson's path from crafting architectural metalwork for the homes of tech billionaires to revolutionizing firearms manufacturing exemplifies American innovation at its finest. In this candid conversation, Rick pulls back the curtain on the precision engineering that sets his barrels apart from anything else on the market.
With remarkable transparency, Rick shares how he taught himself machining from scratch in 2011, developing a single-point cut rifling process that took two years to perfect but produces pistol barrels with unmatched accuracy. "I can take anybody else's barrel on the planet and cut their group size in half," he states confidently – a bold claim backed by years of meticulous development and testing. His newly patented 12-groove rifling system for 300 Blackout barrels solves the fundamental problem of gas blow-by with subsonic ammunition, achieving sub-MOA accuracy at distances where competitors fall apart.
Beyond the technical innovations, Rick offers invaluable insights into navigating the volatile firearms industry as a business owner. From nearly losing everything during the post-2016 "Trump slump" to building a manufacturing operation that now employs over 40 people and runs 24/7, his journey highlights both the rewards and pitfalls of entrepreneurship in this space. He addresses head-on the economic pressures squeezing firearms manufacturers – rising costs but stagnant prices – while sharing strategies for sustainable growth.
The conversation takes a thoughtful turn as Rick discusses the current state of Second Amendment advocacy and the challenging legislative environment in Washington state. His perspective on education-focused approaches to changing public perception offers a refreshing alternative to the often polarized firearms discourse.
Whether you're fascinated by precision manufacturing, considering starting your own business, or simply interested in firearms innovation, this episode delivers insights you won't find anywhere else. Tune in to discover how determination, technical excellence, and a passion for quality have established Rick Olson as a respected innovator in American firearms manufacturing.
Find out more about Big Tex Ordnance at bigtexordnance.com
Up in Washington. You know they've been passing all sorts of crazy laws to us. It's insane what they're doing to us. It's completely un-American, unconstitutional, but they're just ramrodding them through. They're not taking a vote. Bob Ferguson, the old attorney general for Jay Inslee he is now our governor and he was the one writing all these laws for Inslee. Now he's in there and he's just ram writing all these laws for inslee. Now he's in there and he's just bramrodding these things down our throat. You want some beans? Not right now. My wife would love some. Yeah, she, she wants to do like the whole homestead thing eventually, like she wants to have goats and chickens.
Speaker 3:Yeah, cows and chickens are next for us, and that's, that's the, that's the goal right there yeah, it's be self-sufficient.
Speaker 1:Right now we're just on an acre, yo, you know. So it's just not conducive right where we're at right now. The last place I had was on five acres. Oh, nice, like it was, it would have been perfect for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah you can do a lot with like two, two to five acres.
Speaker 1:Like that's when you really you can really start doing yeah one acre is just enough room to where you're not bumping into your neighbor, but it's not enough to start farming. Yeah, especially when I got two pit bulls. They would find those chickens fun to chew on for a minute.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're gonna have to get some chicken soon, man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're fun, they're pretty easy too that's what I've heard, yeah, chicken and quail. I've looked, been looking into quail yeah, a little bit as well. I haven't done quail, but I've heard the same thing. The only thing with quail is like we got quail eggs one time and you have to crack a lot of eggs to like, oh yeah, make scrambled eggs or something like. I don't know if I have the patience for little thimble-sized yolks.
Speaker 1:I'll make you an automated quail cracker. You just load up a hopper and you're like a Gatling gun. There you go. You just got to automate it.
Speaker 2:So on this episode of the Big Tech Sword Ordinance Home Steading Podcast, we're here with Brendan and Rick talking about all things homesteading. That's right. But yeah, welcome to the podcast. You know what it is. I'm Ike. We have Brendan, also known as Camera Guy, in front of the camera this time once again. And then our guest today is Rick Ol olson from icon killer defense or uh, velocity there. You got a lot of things going on, yeah, killer.
Speaker 1:So city killer innovations is kind of like the umbrella company. So we do a lot of oem work for different companies and within we have velocity defense, which is kind of our enthusiast competition gear, mainly focusing on pistol stuff right now. And then we have icon defense, which is more the AR side, but it's also like the more duty, like hard use gear. Military law enforcement you know we're developing it to be hard use gear. Military law enforcement you know we're developing it to be hard use gear. So we kind of have those those segments, because I don't think that they really cross. You know, like, if we're designing stuff for hard use, it's not really like I wouldn't, I wouldn't put a compensator on a hard use pistol. You know it just doesn't make sense. So I wanted to delineate a hard use pistol.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, it just doesn't make sense. So I wanted to delineate no, that's good to kind of segment it out based on, like you know, the purpose behind the brand and kind of what you're trying to accomplish, yeah, and a lot of it too was, uh, my business partner, Mike Miller.
Speaker 1:Um, he, he was the founder of mega if you remember mega arms, oh yeah, Um, and he had like a really crazy cult following there and he was known for doing like very high end hard use you know AR stuff and he was actually one of the first guys to really do a lot of aftermarket you know OEM receivers and stuff like that and he ended up being over at Zev for a while and three years ago he came over and joined me and so he really wanted to get back to his roots, um, and that's where icon was kind of launched, um, we thought it would be a a good fit and so far it's been moving kind of slow. We've been so busy with the oem side that we haven't had the energy and the time to just dive into it. But this year we're leaning in. We finally found the space to push into it.
Speaker 2:So I want to come back and talk about each of these kind of brands, if you will, individually. First, can you give us a little bit of backstory on you and kind of how you found yourself in this world? Yeah, and kind of how you found yourself in this world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's kind of a long story but I started off actually doing really high-end architectural sheet metal, doing mostly shop fabrication and stuff like that a lot of press break work, advanced layout, welding, finishing. I worked on Paul Allen's's house and bill gates house and the experience music project up in seattle. Um, I did a bunch of metal work on that um, and I ended up getting more into like the project management side of doing construction work and doing estimating and even into engineering and I really just got burned out on construction in a whole. Like I just it's not like the firearm community, it's very cutthroat and for me it just wasn't a good fit. I wasn't happy there and so I was always looking for kind of a way out of that world and to do something I really enjoyed and what I had passion in.
Speaker 1:And so I grew up in a long range shooting family. My dad he was a highmaster palma shooter when I was growing up and he builds really cool you know walnut wood stocks in our garage garage and I just kind of grew up tinkering with my dad and I just like you know what I this is something I can see myself doing and, um, finally, I just got a wild hair up my butt and, uh, I was designing parts in cat and trying to get them, uh, patented and I was getting, you know, getting some stuff through. But when you go to prototype something, you go to a machine shop and they're like, yeah, you know, it looks really cool, uh, 60 grand and I'll prototype that for you. And you're like, what you know, like I was, just like you know, a kid. You know, on a regular budget I didn't have sixty thousand dollars to line around right, and so, you know, I decided to buy a mill and teach myself how to mill. I'd never done it before.
Speaker 1:I was a fabricator, um, I've always been able to learn anything that I put my mind to, but I wasn't a machinist and so there was a learning curve for sure, it was a scary one and bought that mill and bought a seat of master cam the brand new Hawes seat of master cam, put it in a shop next to my house and started going and within three or four days I was cutting four axis parts. You know, I was just. I figured out how to make the mill move. I figured out, you know kind of what I was doing, had a lot of learning to do. Yeah, you don't know what you don't know. Yeah, but not real quick.
Speaker 1:But we were making good, you know, and I dove right into the um, the metrology part of it. We're, you know, measuring what you're doing. You can machine stuff all day, but is it, you know, measuring what you're doing? You can machine stuff all day, but is it right, you know. And so that's one thing that I forced myself to do. It's like, okay, if I'm going to become a machinist, I've got to learn how to verify my work Right and and not just make crap, cause you can do it with and you can't see it, like in machine parts. Sometimes you can, but measurements are measurements. Like it's hard to see a couple thousandths of an inch and it's either right or wrong. And so, learning how to check my own work and make high quality parts it, it took me a little bit, but it wasn't as hard as people think it might be. You know, especially if you really dive into it, you put your whole heart and soul into it. You can, you can do about anything.
Speaker 2:You just got to go for it what year was it when you bought your first mill?
Speaker 1:2011. Oh wow, I think that was when I cut my first parts in 2011 and it was a.
Speaker 1:It was a god sent, like I actually ran into john wong at rainier arms okay, yeah like almost right out of the gate and, um, he had some little simple parts that he wanted made and it just kind of exploded from there, like he, he wanted these parts made, those parts made, and then I started running into other people and getting different oem work and we started doing our own brand and it just kind of exploded, um ended up moving into a bigger shop and it's, you know, fast forward to where we're at now. We got 11 machines, we have 40 plus employees, we run 24-7, literally my machine shop doesn't even turn off and we're turning away work. It's just, it's exploded and it's been amazing to watch it and you know, the employees, the people that we've surrounded ourselves with is just, we've got a top-notch crew.
Speaker 2:So how do you go about scaling from your garage, basically with your one machine and your buddy camping out at your house running shifts with you? How do you scale up to 10,000 square feet, 40 employees and 11 machines like that Slowly?
Speaker 1:It's scary, you know, because it's the, the investment of this equipment, I mean some of these pieces of machine. You know equipment are six, seven hundred thousand dollars, insane, and so it's a big chunk every time you put another machine on the floor. But when you put another machine on the floor you got to make it work right. So you have to be ready to hire people to build more infrastructure. And it's not just the machines, um, it's bigger air compressors, it's better sandblasting equipment, it's more tumblers, it's having an assembly area that's set up, that it's having a photo studio, it's putting in network and it stuff, like it's just, it just, it's like layers upon layers, and so it's a. It's a slow growth. But again, you just gotta be ready to wear a lot of hats.
Speaker 1:You know I'm the it guy. One minute I'm the welder. The next minute I'm building a lot of hats. You know I'm the it guy. One minute I'm the welder. The next minute I'm building a spreadsheet. The next minute I'm designing a part. The next minute, you know, it's just, you just go where you need and you just kind of I guess it's a be like water thing fill the cup so you mentioned that you, you work with a lot of different kind of higher, higher end brands or oem for a lot of different brands.
Speaker 2:Um, how, how do you go about getting those clients? And like, how do you build those relationships with those folks? Well, do they just kind of you just happen to meet the right people the right time, or it's, it's that.
Speaker 1:But it's also I don't know. I mean this sounds cliche, but it's like be a good person. Yeah, you know, like if you do what you say you're going to do and you treat people right, like I believe doors open for you. And over the years we've, like my first client that I ever had, I still have them. You know. I'm not saying I haven't lost people, but it's more me firing customers, but you know the doors open.
Speaker 1:Mike Miller when he came on, he brought with him an incredible portfolio of people that he'd worked with in the past. I owe a lot of that to him. Some of our best clients that we have. He brought with him, a lot of that to him. Some of our best clients that we have he brought with him and um, and, but they're all very high. You know I can't say exactly who these companies are Um, there's NDAs in place and everything, but we work with some of the very best brands in this industry.
Speaker 1:We do some of the most high end work in this industry, and, and we don't just do the machine work, we also do a lot of the design development. You know they come to us with a concept and we try to take it the rest of the way for them. Sometimes. Sometimes they'll come to us with a drawing, but it's pretty rare. Usually we're very involved in the R&D part. A lot of sometimes we'll come up with an idea and we'll bring it to them and say, hey, we came up with this idea, you guys want to take this. We feel like it's a good fit for you, and they can take it or leave it. Um, but you know, like one brand that I can say that we work very close with, closely with, is sons of liberty. You know, great company. We do a lot of work for them. Um, you know we collab on the design.
Speaker 3:They have a lot of experience with testing and doing that kind of stuff, so we do a lot with them yeah, we, we end up doing a lot of work with them too over here and they they definitely seem like a good group of guys over there who really care about not only the industry but just like 2a rights and building a quality product and stuff. So a lot of a lot of respect for them and their companies, growing a lot too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're taking off like like absolutely crazy yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well deserved too. They make good stuff yeah.
Speaker 2:Not only on like just like you know, the expansion side, but they're like going deeper into like new stuff, like you know, bring out new products and new materials and like kind of pushing the envelope as far as you know, like what they're, what they're putting out.
Speaker 1:We have a we have a long list of projects they want to do. You know, and along with some of the other OEMs. You know like everybody wants to be innovating, right. It's like if you don't innovate, you die. You know like everybody wants to be innovating, right. It's like if you don't innovate, you die, especially the companies we work with, and I think that's a lot of the reason why these companies are bucking the trend right now.
Speaker 1:You know, a lot of people are having a hard time right now. It seems like some of the companies that we've aligned with are somehow they're not being affected as much, and it's it's cool to see and, you know, I feel very blessed. I think God's looked out for us to be have friends like this. You know, mike and Kyle over at Sons are great people, like you said, very two-way oriented. They do care, but they also care about putting good product out in the market and they they cater to military, law enforcement and the enthusiasts, and so they're hitting all three segments very well. It's cool to see. I wish I was a marketer like them. I don't know how to market like those guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's nice when you kind of have all the pieces coming together. They've got the good designs, the good IP, if you will, the marketing side, the culture and everything over there, the sense of community and all that, and then just the ability to take an idea and run with it and then actually get it out to the market. They've got the whole setup over there really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're a great company, great people, and that's the big thing is. Surround yourself, you know, that's why I started this. Surround yourself with people you consider friends and that you you'd be friends with, you know, and that's where the construction thing totally lost me. Yeah, it's like a lot of those people I wouldn't, I didn't want to shake their hand, you know, and it's like why am I working with these people? And this industry is completely different. You know, every, every industry has got their rotten eggs, but it seems like, for the most part, almost everybody I meet.
Speaker 2:You don't really get. You're not able to get away with it as much in this industry because everybody knows, everybody you know, and then like that stuff gets around and if you start developing that bad reputation, you know people just don't really have a desire to work with you at that point.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, true, I definitely think what you were saying just by being a good person, doing what you say you're going to do, and that sort of thing definitely pays off. Even if it doesn't, you know, work out in the short term, it's probably for good reason. You know, there's been other companies I've worked for and things didn't work out, but it was companies that I probably wouldn't want to stay with anyways. So, like you said, I don't think for the viewers who aren't in the industry right now, I don't think they realize how difficult this last year has been for a lot of companies. And to hear stories like with you guys, stories like with Sons, sons just good dudes doing good work and and, uh, doing well right now, it's really definitely encouraging to see, and I definitely think you know you have that work ethic, you're gonna eventually it's gonna come back to you yeah, and the thing that scares me the most is I feel like right now, it's the gun shops that are getting hit the hardest yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:Um, that, and that's the point of that are getting hit the hardest. Yeah, definitely, and that's the point of sale, right. So that's scary to me and I really feel for a lot of these gun shops. I can see that they're struggling and that they're hurting right now and I'm really hoping that this turns around for us pretty soon. Like really we need it in the, in this community and to in the 2A community especially. Like we need to bolster things up a little bit, and I think, with this new administration, I'm praying that things are going to shift for us a little bit. But, yeah, same, yeah, it's kind of scary times because eventually, like we're not immune, like eventually it makes its way up to the manufacturers. It's always like a delay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you kind of see the tail end of it and stuff. You know, yeah, there is a delay there. Yeah, like, there's been a couple gun shops here in Conroe and Magnolia that have closed, like there was one right there off 1488. I drove by every day because of school. I met the owner. He's been in the range before he shoots the match and stuff. Super cool dude, um I I just was driving by the other day and saw that it's for lease now. You know, um, and they were always a pretty cool shop, like they stocked good stuff, and all these little little shops and all the local gun shops are are the ones that feel at first. Yeah, I mean, we saw in 2016 the Trump slump and everything. I think this Trump presidency is going to be different.
Speaker 1:We hit a double whammy with that one, because I think a lot of people were betting on Hillary getting in, and that's exactly what happened and everybody stocked their shelves tall.
Speaker 2:Everybody was going as deep as they could, buying as much inventory as they could, because they thought Hillary had it in the bag. And then, when the opposite happened, everybody was so overstocked that Fire sales. Yeah, exactly yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think there was a build-up to that too, like with Sandy Hook, right, because there were some things that happened where these explosions would happen in the market and nobody could get what they wanted to sell it. Everybody was freaked out that if Hillary got in they were not going to be able to get what they wanted, kind of like what you alluded to. People doubled down or tripled down. It was crazy. The second he got in the carpet just got ripped out from the entire industry. I was at SHOT Show and he got inaugurated. Oh yeah, we were watching it on the screen and everybody was hooping and hollering and it was a great thing for the country, but for the firearm industry it was the biggest kick in the teeth because you saw the fire sales start happening, right then.
Speaker 2:Biggest kick in the teeth because you saw the fire sales start happening right then. Also, too, for people that may have gotten into the industry here more recently than others. Like anytime any politician would open their mouth about a potential ban like, look at the Obama years. Like he would open his mouth about that, everyone would rush out and buy you know mags and ammo and guns and stuff. And it got to the point where, like you know, anytime there was any sort of you know mass killing event or something, a politician would open their mouth and talk about bands that they want to push through. Everyone would freak out and go have that high buying Towards the end. It stopped being like that. Yeah, we've become acclimated.
Speaker 2:Everybody thought that's what Hillary was going to do. You know, like if Hillary gets in, there's going to be a huge rush, there's going to be these bans and everything, so everyone's stocking up and then that didn't happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know you definitely see the gun stores and the suppliers being a little bit more conservative now. They're not. They're not doubling down on every scare, yeah.
Speaker 2:Because they're not doubling down on every scare. Yeah, because post-Trump, going into the Biden era, they would talk about bans, and then we'd see it on the news. Okay, here it comes, here it comes. And then everybody had gotten realized over the past, however long, like you know what Nothing ever happens. So I'm just going to sit this one out, or?
Speaker 1:they have five or six. Ars in their closet that they didn't put in the last three scares. They're like full up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they've already panic bought. I think another factor too is that the economy's been bad for a lot of different industries and people really can't afford extra stuff, at least, especially last year. I think that's what's happening now, even going into this year. Yeah.
Speaker 2:If you look at gas prices any consumer price index you know gas prices. The grocery bills, like you know people are just the. The amount that people are spending on groceries and gas like that eats up your disposable income, your, your discretionary income. People just don't have the money for it, right yeah?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and on top of weird, you guys can tell me if you've seen this or not like everything else in the world is going up, but firearm prices aren't. For some reason we can't raise because we're in this weird conundrum right now where nobody's, the demand isn't there right. So like our cost is going up constantly, like my cost of material, my cost of goods sold is going it's probably gone up 15%, 20% in the last three years but I cannot raise my price or put myself out of the marketplace and the people I work for are doing the same thing. You know my OEMs are holding. So it's not a trend right now for the firearm industry to raise along with the cost of living increase which is kind of scary Relations happen all around us, you know, because eventually it's going to have to happen, right, Like we can't hold out forever and just let our.
Speaker 1:you know, we have a very small net profit. I'm sure you know too, firearm manufacturing and gun stores. We have a very narrow Don't get into it for the money, no, we have a very narrow net profit margin. We're not raking in the dough, yeah, and so when inflation happens at that level, it's just eating into that. And when you're talking numbers like 15, 20 percent, like at some point, like there's nothing left to be made and something's going to give, either the cost of living has got to come down and cost of goods sold is going to come down, or the prices are going to have to go up. I mean, it's just inevitable, it's going to happen. And what's that going to look like? What's that going to do to people? Because it sucks.
Speaker 3:Nobody wants to raise prices. I've got a question now for both of you being business owners, looking at economic situations like this is there anything you guys do now, having learned from stuff in the past, that kind of protects your business in times like difficult times like this, changes you've made or stuff? I guess we'll go with you first, rick yeah, um, careful how far you leverage yourself.
Speaker 1:You know how much debt you put yourself in. You know, during the trump slump I almost died. You know it almost got me. Um, I was. I was leveraged to the hill because I was a new company.
Speaker 1:Right when you start, you know within that first five years you don't have time to pay off equipment. You know within that first five years you don't have time to pay off equipment. You know, and nobody can afford to go out and buy you know two $300,000 mills and lathes out of their pocket. You know I started like everybody else did. You go to the bank, you get a loan, you bite the bullet and you take out a loan on a piece of equipment. And but the thing is, you bite the bullet and you take out a loan on a piece of equipment, but the thing is that bill's due every month.
Speaker 1:Some of my equipment now it's 12 Gs a month just for the freaking piece of equipment sitting on the floor, and that's not the people running it and that's not the tools I put in it, it's not the material, nothing. But you got to really be careful on how far you leverage yourself because it almost got me. You know, and I'm in a much better position now I think we own like 75 percent of the equipment, outright Nice. You know so that that that debt ratio is way down from where it's at and I never want to let it get up like that again, because puking blood in the middle of the night because you're so stressed out is not a good way to live.
Speaker 3:It doesn't sound healthy.
Speaker 1:No, and so what about you, ike? What's your take on that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, kind of touching on what you said, not over-leveraging yourself. I think that's a really easy mistake to make because there's always some risk with business and, like you said, there's no way to grow it. I'm not going to say there's no way, I don't like absolute statements, but it's very difficult to grow a company and to scale up like that without taking on some amount of debt. Obviously it can be done, but you're not going to grow as quickly as you could otherwise. And then sometimes the demand is there and either you have to grow or give up. If you're not moving forward, you're going to end up falling. So it's trying to find that line.
Speaker 2:And then also I think Michael Gerlich talked about it on the podcast, I think on our podcast a couple years ago at SHOT Show. He's raving concealment for those that may not know. He was basically saying when times are good and money's flowing in, that's when the businesses tend to get really loose with their spending. They don't really watch their budgets as much as they should. They don't throw money away but they're not as deliberate with their spending. If you maintain that all the way through the slow periods and stuff, if you don't adjust that quick enough, it can really bite you, come back to bite you. So maintaining that discipline when times are good will prepare you for the downturn, because you're already used to that discipline and that you know that I guess deliberate spending, as opposed to just like throwing money here and there and just like not watching it as closely.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and you know everybody loves growing Like there's nothing more exciting than growing your company, you know, because you get to see it moving forward. The hardest thing to do is to watch your company go backwards. Yeah Right, that's painful because we fight for every inch forward. Yeah right, that's painful because we fight for every inch forward. It's like when you're in a tug-of-war, you know, when you're pulling back and you're you're winning, it feels great. But when you're getting pulled forward and you're losing ground, it's kind of a horrible sinking feeling. And this, this guy um, this was years ago. This was actually back when I was doing hvac stuff. I did a a seminar with this. I listened to this guy speak and he had a really great visual analogy for this and hopefully I can do it without a whiteboard here.
Speaker 1:But imagine you have a triangle right and your company growing is going up this side of the triangle and your company declining is going up this side of the triangle and your company declining is going down this side of the triangle. Now, when you're growing, you always cut into the triangle and then you grow to the line. So that line is your growth curve right. So you always you struggle, you expand up to the line. You struggle, you expand up to the line and so forth. So you're on the inside of the triangle. The inside of the triangle is profitability, the outside of the triangle you're losing money.
Speaker 1:Our natural inclination is, when we decline, is to do the exact opposite. We hold on to things as long as we can and then we fall to the line. We hold on to things as long as we can and then we fall to the line. We hold on to things as long as we can and we fall to the line. We cut at the last second to get down to the line. But that's wrong thinking. If we were struggling coming up and we were staying on the inside of the triangle, you should be doing the same thing coming down, and on the inside of the triangle you should be doing the same thing coming down. You should cut soon, let it move to the line, cut soon, move to the line. And that was just a really good analogy. That always stuck with me. That's a good visualization, but it's a hard thing to do, even though you need to do it.
Speaker 2:It's very easy to say, it's another thing. In practice, intellectually, you might know that that's the right thing to do, but actually going out and doing that is very difficult.
Speaker 1:Well, we build relationships with employees. Our most valuable things we have are our guys, right? Oh, absolutely Our team. It's so hard to build an awesome team. It's probably the most important thing we do is team building. If you don't do that right, you're done. And so, letting go good people, you're holding out hope that things are going to pick up and you hold on to them as long as you can, but at some point you might have to let them go. But the last thing you want to do is let them go early, right? So it's a conundrum. It's a really tough spot to be in as a business owner and it's it's a hard call to make, and because you let a guy go like that, you might never see him again. You know they're a good guy, they're going to go find someplace else to work and they're going to do good there, and so it's hard.
Speaker 3:I definitely don't envy you guys for having to make decisions like that. You know I can't imagine and we talked a little bit about it earlier but it's just the amount of work that goes into building the business and growing it in the first place, getting it to take off how you guys said. You know it takes a long time before you know, several years before people really start to notice you and they're like oh, you guys blew up overnight. It's like no, no, we've been working at this for a long time already and then you know it's just definitely a kudos to you guys for for being able to do that and stick with it. It definitely takes grit.
Speaker 1:Or we're just really dumb.
Speaker 3:Yeah, don't know any better.
Speaker 2:I think also too, to be a business owner, you kind of also have to be an optimist to some degree. I mean, if you took a look at it, statistically speaking, most businesses fail within the first three years. Most don't see their fifth year anniversary. So to go and be like you know what I'm going to beat the odds, that takes a certain degree of optimism. And then what you were talking about was cutting early enough. You have to be a realist to an extent degree. It requires almost a degree of pessimism to be like okay, I don't think things are going to get better. I need to cut big enough, fast enough, um. But as like a business owner you're, I feel like naturally you're more optimistic. Um, so you think things are going to get better.
Speaker 1:And when they don't, that's when you find yourself outside the triangle downward I, I, we're all sinners that way, man, like we all know what our fault is and you still do it, you know. But to be cognizant of it and to understand that when you do that you're taking that risk, you know, I think it's important and to not let it get too out of hand. Right, I feel that life is all about balance, you know, trying to find that that balance point where everything kind of maintains. Like you can, I never feel like I can do everything, anything perfect, but I feel like I can hold a lot of spinning plates, you know, somewhat Okay, you know I'm dancing around trying to keep them in the air, but it's a it's a lot to handle.
Speaker 1:And the other thing I was I was thinking of too is, like, in these tough times, I think one thing that separates the, the people that succeed, is they force themselves to keep innovating and kick and pushing and pushing forward and not going stagnant.
Speaker 1:I see that in a lot of different companies, the ones that are out there pushing hard and trying to bring new ideas and new things to the market and pushing the envelope, it seems like they're doing, uh, they seem to buck the trend as well. Like, like, right now we're working with flux defense. You know, great company, um, and we we actually did a like a collab slide with them with a charging handle, but it they're like, when I, when I met them well, actually, the first time I saw the flux raider I was like man, like this thing is cool. You know, like these guys put a lot of thought into it, yeah, a lot of thought. Yeah, the way you you can dump both mags, yeah, and, and you can just slam the next one in the reload time is like crazy. Like the way that buttstock to your the brace deploys, sorry, um, uh, and just like the the amount of detail that they put into that thing.
Speaker 2:And you know, like those boys, it's a very complex piece of piece of equipment, or, yeah, like it's, it's not. It's not a simple design no, I appreciated it.
Speaker 1:You know, like I, I like building complex things, like you guys have seen the stuff I made, like I kind of go into the weeds, and so I saw it and I appreciated it and I was like man, I gotta meet these guys, you know. And so we ran into each other and, um, and we decided to do a collab on a slide and like now, now it looks like we're going to be doing some barrel work with them, everything else. So, um, but they, they're kind of the point of the spear a little bit. You know they're, they're pushing into something that was kind of the point of the spear a little bit. You know they're pushing into something that was kind of untapped, or they did it better than anybody else had ever done it.
Speaker 1:And I just see those kind of companies somehow, in this decline, they're still thriving and they're always sold out, you know, and it's cool to see you know. So innovation does still drive the ship. You just, you got to put yourself at the point of that spear somehow, and that's one thing that we try to do very hard. I don't know like if I'm doing a really great job at it, but I try as hard as I can to keep pushing and to try to keep innovating.
Speaker 2:So, speaking of that, that's a really good segue. We're doing some other videos on it. That's why you're down here is recording some product informational videos and stuff. But Icon has some pretty cool stuff coming out. Can you talk about the 300 blackout barrel? Yeah, you showed me a bunch of stuff at SHOT. We're going over some stuff now, but I think this would be a good kind of natural.
Speaker 1:It's pretty cool. Yeah, it's kind of a crazy thing. We actually got a non-provisional patent on rifling, which I don't think happens a lot anymore. Right to get a patent on rifling. But we were actually working with a guy His name is Rob Randazzo. He's a really cool dude that we've been friends with. He actually worked with Mike at Zev for a while when Mike was running manufacturing and engineering over there. He worked at Aberdeen and he worked for some unknown military forces as their armorer, doing work for them, setting up their guns and everything. Very smart guy. He's the one that actually kind of brought this to us and we we teamed up with him and we we had to do a lot of work on the development to get this thing to actually work and over the finish line.
Speaker 1:But it's, it's kind of a crazy technology. It's it's a 12 groove rifling. Instead of six grooves it has 12 and the reason for it is when you have 12 grooves, your rifling depth can be half as deep, right, so instead of four thousands deep grooves, they're two thousands deep, and what that gains you in 300 blackout. See when 300 blackout doesn't have enough. If you're shooting subsonic, it doesn't have enough. If you're shooting subsonic, it doesn't have enough pressure behind the bullet to seal the bullet into the corners of the rifling grooves when they're four thousandths deep. Right, you need 43,000 PSI behind the bullet to deform the bullet into those corners, to seal it. And if you don't seal, what happens is you get gas blow by in those corners and it destabilizes your bullet. That's why 300 blackouts fall apart at 150 yards. They get destabilized and they get out and they wobble, wobble, wobble and then all of a sudden they start tumbling. Yeah, right, it's always around 150 yards.
Speaker 1:When we went to the 12 groove and we're getting it to seal and it's also less turbulent, you got those two thousandths grooves on the outside of the bullet. Oh, so it's like smaller blades of a prop in the air, right, so they're not disturbing the air as much as it's spinning, because you're subsonic. You don't have that high pressure cone going around the bullet like you do a supersonic um, so the air is contacting the surface of the bullet the whole time, so but what it does is it seals. So what we're able to do with that is we're getting sub moa at 300 yards of subsonic. It's working great, and so we're like super excited, like we actually got it to work and it's doing what it's supposed to do, so we're we're really excited about this one.
Speaker 2:when's when do you anticipate that launching? You're absolutely out. Oh, it's out, it's out. Oh wow, we got them.
Speaker 3:Oh snap, I thought that was going to be my next recce rifle is a 9-inch 300 blackout.
Speaker 1:I think we just took shipment of the first production batch. Well snap. So yeah, they're hitting the market right now. Wow. So I think we just need to finalize the price. They're here, but I think probably in the next week they'll be on the website for sale. We're going to stock our dealers and everybody first, obviously.
Speaker 2:Speaking about rifling and grooves and all that, let's talk about your pistol barrels. You're probably going to go in-depth on this on one of the product videos. What makes your pistol barrels different than, say, any other one on the market?
Speaker 1:You guys. I've given you the explanation of this. It's the way we rifle it. There's three different types of rifling and I don't want to get like crazy into the weeds on this because I can go on and on. I geek out bad, but it took me two years to develop the technology that we put into those barrels and it was trial and error, trial and error and it was a very expensive machine sitting there for two years, like as I developed this. It was a very expensive machine sitting there for two years, like as I developed this. It was a very, very painful process and anybody that wants to try it, go ahead, I dare you. It's, it's painful and so, but I'm stubborn and I knew I could do it.
Speaker 1:Um, but basically it's, uh, the the rifling on the inside of the barrel is single-point cut and what that means? Almost every other barrel on the market right now as far as I know, I'm the only one single-point cutting pistol barrels in the world but everybody else they're using button or broach rifling and so, at the end of the day, button and broach don't yield the same groove to groove accuracy, because every groove in the barrel is being cut with a different cutter edge. Um where single point cut. You have one cutter edge cutting each groove one at a time and you're taking two ten thousandths of an inch per stroke. So at the end of the day we're going, we're putting the tool in the barrel 144 times, but every groove is cut with the same cutter, at the exact same depth, at the exact same width. Even the scratches, like if you look at it through a microscope, even the scratches are forens. You can't tell the difference.
Speaker 2:So you've got like one tool, one cutting tool that cuts two one-thousandths of an inch off of one groove and it indexes to the next position, cuts two one-thousandths off and does that for all six grooves. Yep, and then it repeats the process again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you advance the cutter and it goes through all the grooves again, taking two 10,000ths of an inch. That's about all it can take If you tried to load the tool more than that. Two 10,000ths, two 10,000ths, not two 1,000ths, Two 10,000ths, so eight passes, you know, or five passes to make a thou Wow, and so we're going four thou deep, so without deep, so it's it's a lot of strokes and what's what's cycle time?
Speaker 1:on that like I won't. I can't say that, oh yeah, that's probably. Yeah, I'm trying to the way I do. It is very unique. We actually make our own tools in-house, um, but it's very highly guarded. How I did it? Um, but it's all being done.
Speaker 1:The one of the other coolest things is it it's all done in one machine, from start to finish. Oh, wow, all the features of accuracy are done in one machine, start to finish. The barrel, od, the bore, the rifling, the threads, the crown, the chamber, which are all the components of accuracy, are done in one machine without ever being touched. We cut out a pre-hardened material, so I'm not even doing a post heat treat. That will deform the material, yeah. Well, harder on the tools, yeah, but what you get out the other end is what you get, and so the, at the end of the day, what this?
Speaker 1:It gives you a very accurate barrel. You got four inches on a pistol barrel to get that bullet pointed the right way. People say this all the time, but I don't think people really understand it. Barrel length doesn't have anything to do with accuracy. Barrel length has everything to do with velocity. If you can get that bullet pointed straight, you got four inches to do it. You can do it. These are incredibly accurate barrels. Usually I can take anybody else's barrel on the planet. Cut their group size in half. Oh wow, I've made that claim since I started making them. If people don't like them or they say bullshit, send it back to me, I'll take it back. I've never had one returned. They're accurate, they, they do what they. They do what I say they need to do, but they. It was a hard, hard lesson to to develop that technology you found a lot of ways not to do it.
Speaker 1:Huh, yes, yeah the light bulb, you know, yeah, yeah, it was. It was a lot of trial and error and it's it's very complex and it wasn't until I started actually making my own tools in the house that I got it to stay allowed, because I was hiring grind companies and stuff. I'm literally grinding carbide on my own. I couldn't get anybody else to do it right, so so I I bought grinders and brought it in, but it's just very tedious, like getting the setup right is incredible. But once I did it, it's very, very repeatable now and it's very steady. I did it and it was hard to do. But the cool thing now is is it's all automated, it's all robotic. It moves between the. It has two machines that goes through, but it's robot loaded, it's bar fed in Very stable process now. So I won somehow. But yeah, that's probably the coolest thing I've ever done myself, the hardest thing I've ever done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it sounds like it. Well, a couple of years, and I'm not even gonna ask you how many thousands of dollars, and I mean just, the machine was 500 and that thing sat for two years. I was going to say just taking two years to actually get it to where it's producing income is.
Speaker 1:It was a hard pill to swallow, but I knew it was possible. Yeah, I knew, I knew it could be done and I knew if I could do it I would have something that nobody else has. And I haven't. You know it. Some things are worth fighting for and some things are worth pushing, and we're known now for these barrels and nobody like we're really like. Velocity Defense is a very small company in the big scheme of things. You talk to most people, they don't even know who we are. If they do know who we are, they know it's our barrel Because it's starting to make waves and so it's getting out there. It's just slow because we're small and I suck at marketing.
Speaker 2:You're too busy running the machines and another thousand hats that you wear.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, it's a balancing act, but we're trying to step into the marketing and letting people know what we're doing more. This year it's my, it's my big push. You know, like I realized I need to stop taking so much of my energy, all my energy, and putting it into the product for just a little bit, and I need to build my marketing and branding department and get that up and moving and breathing on its own. You know, because once you get it to a certain point and you get the right people in place, it will start taking care of itself. But I wasn't giving it enough attention to even get it there. Yeah, right, so now it's now.
Speaker 1:It's like I'm refocusing a little bit, but I'm excited. Yeah, it sounds pretty cool. Yeah, I'm excited and I, you know, again, I really appreciate you guys for having me over this. You know, this week, very generous of you to come up, you know, invite me in and, you know, do these product videos and stuff, because this is what I need help with right now and you guys are great friends. You know great people. Like I said, this industry is about the relationships and the people that you know and good people, and it seems like all the good people stick together. Oh yeah, and it's just, it's really cool to see awesome, awesome industry that way absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm very glad we can help. Yeah, collaboration, I love it this is cool too.
Speaker 1:I love the podcast setup you guys got yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is awesome Cozy little room. We've got some beautiful artwork on the wall. I guess you got most of the artwork over there, but yeah, this is a really cool setup.
Speaker 1:How many podcasts do you guys do A lot.
Speaker 3:I think we're at 109 right now, we've got more than that recorded. Yeah, I think published is like 107. We, we've got more than that recorded. Yeah, I think published is like 107. Yeah, wow, something like that. You're close Like 109, 107. How long have you been doing it? A while, okay, ever since I've been here.
Speaker 2:I've only been here for like a year and a half, so yeah, I think this is our third season now that we to everyone every two weeks, with a break in the summer, so we're in season three right now, um, and then we're doing one every two weeks just to kind of maintain so we can do other things. Yeah, just a podcast, so, um, because doing one every week is pretty intensive, but I think we have like five or six, maybe even more, recorded.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we do. I've got I've got a little bit of work ahead of me here, a little bit of catching up to do. I was out for a couple months, so, um, but a question I was going to ask earlier and we got distracted with politics. Um, I like to ask this question and I have a feeling you've probably got an interesting answer and that is what do you want to see different from the firearms industry? What kind of changes would you like to see? It's kind of a tough question.
Speaker 1:It is and it isn't. So this is just my feel on it. So this is just my feel on it. So back when I was a kid growing up, the NRA was like they were our biggest advocate and ally. And there's some people that still feel that they are, you know, and I'm not and I'm not poopooing them but it doesn't feel like that's the consensus anymore in a lot of crowds that I talk to. Right, like we don't have that elephant in the room like they used to be, like just a force. Right like they. They would go in when the legislation was happening at the local level. They would come in in force and they would try to. They put up a good fight. Right, they didn't always win, but they they would always come in and fight hard.
Speaker 1:Up in Washington they've been passing all sorts of crazy laws to us. It's insane what they're doing to us. It's completely un-American, unconstitutional, but they're just ramrodding them through. They're not taking a vote. Bob Ferguson, the old attorney general for Jay Inslee he is now our governor. He was the one writing all these laws for Inslee. Now he's in there and he's just bramrodding these things down our throat. They're horrible. They've outlawed AR-15 receiver sales, threaded barrels, high-capacity magazines. We're worse than California now, like overnight.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so you know I would go and testify at the hearings, you know, for these laws, and you know I would show up and I'd have, you know, a two minute speech written, and sometimes you can't even get in to speak it and if you do, they don't listen to you, they don't want to hear it. It's like you're talking at a wall, it. You literally feel like it was a waste of my time to even come down and do this. But I needed to do it, you know, like I just needed it to be said or submitted. Like if you don't get a chance to talk, you submit your, your speech to them, but it means nothing to them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and it would be nice to have you know, like, like I said, like what the NRA was, like, that elephant that would come in and and topple some people over or make it hard on them. You know, and I know that there's groups out there doing it, um, uh, and they're trying to get bigger, but it just seemed like, like I don't know if you guys feel the same way, but when we grew up it was like nra was oh yeah, boom, like they were really in their face all the time. And now it feels like we have three or four littler guys, but they don't seem to have the punch. That, you know, and maybe that's just me, maybe that's just my point of view. You know, it's just kind of the way I feel, and maybe it's because of the state I live in and I I feel like we're getting railroaded and it doesn't seem like too much is being done to slow them down.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, there definitely are a couple of those groups out there that I like. I think they're definitely better than the NRA these days, but, like you said, they're a lot smaller and it's going to probably take a while, like we've talked to the guys from Second Amendment Foundation, did GOA come in?
Speaker 2:I don't know that GOA did. I think Tara's actually at a GOA event tonight. She's giving a speech there. Saw her on the way out. Our marketing expense coordinator there at the range.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I do like them. They definitely are smaller but they're pretty aggressive with their lawsuits and they've been pretty successful in getting some of these things overturned, which is good. Especially since the Bruin decision that definitely has helped a lot of these cases out. Kind of changing a little bit of the standards I don't know too much of the legal language there, but changing some of the standards on how they look at whether or not some of these laws are unconstitutional and things like that.
Speaker 1:Well, and it takes a lot of money to fight. You know, yeah, I mean flying these lawyers around state to state and you know I mean that it's I get it. You know, and I and I can see why you're like nra had such a monopoly. They had a monopoly on that whole yeah thing for a long time and I feel like you know there's maybe some bad actors that kind of gave them a bad name. You know, and, and you know part of me wants to see him recover, but part of me also wants to see one of these other organizations step up into their place and really do the job better I kind of have mixed feelings on that.
Speaker 2:Like there's a lot of good smaller organizations that are doing some good stuff. Like like second amendment Foundation is doing some really excellent work. Good group of people over there. Adam is heading up a lot of stuff. Known him for a while. He's kind of leading the charge over there and really breathing some life into that organization.
Speaker 2:I think the NRA, I think it can still be saved. Like you had said, it's nowhere near the force that it used to be. You know, back in my lifetime and yours, kind of growing up, I think they have a lot of inroads and a lot of like infrastructure that a lot of these other smaller places don't. So I think if we can somehow I say we like as the community you know the second amendment community can kind of take back the organization in a way. I think there's a lot of good infrastructure there and a lot of resources that they have. It just needs to be applied in the right direction instead of you know $50,000 suits for Wayne LaPierre and like all the other.
Speaker 2:You know excessive spending, that and just mismanagement of the organization and you know the the failure to live up to like what their mission should be or used to be, you know, I think if we can somehow take back the organization, steer it in the direction that needs to be, where they're actually, you know, advocating for our rights and what they used to do, basically, I think I would like to see the NRA turned around. I think that's probably be the most efficient way to do it. But I do like seeing these other organizations come up, kind of playing both things at the same time, hoping for the best with NRA but preparing for the worst by supporting these other organizations to eventually take over.
Speaker 1:So I feel you on that 100 percent and I really hope that some of these smaller organizations like I wish them the best. You know they have a hard fight. You know, and we all have a hard fight and somehow we're going to have to figure out a way to bolster them up. And that's hard, it's hard to do, especially right now, like we just got done talking about how much disposable income people have. You know everybody's trying to figure out any way to clip, you know, a little bit out of their budget so they can go out to eat once a week.
Speaker 2:or you know like it's hard for people right now to to start passing money out um, yeah, when just like the cost of living, like actual living, like eating, you know, and getting to and from work, and rent, like the, the cost that it takes to actually, just, you know, survive is is going up exponentially, yeah, and then trying to have money available for anything else is is hard for the vast majority.
Speaker 1:It's a big ask. Right now it's a big ask and so it's a. It's a uphill battle for us right now. It's a double whammy and you know I think the advocates playing on it. You know they're they're moving fast right now because I think they feel like they can and they're not getting as much opposition as they might've before. You know, when these foundations are stronger and and the people had more money to support them.
Speaker 2:Like, if you look at, just like on a state by state basis, how many restrictive gun laws have been enacted in the past, say, five years. So you got Washington, oregon's going through a lot, colorado went through a bunch, they've gone through some more. Illinois, like you've got all these. Like California used to be, you know, the poster child for restrictive gun. Um, you know restrictions basically said restrictive and restrictions in the same center. You know what I mean. Yes, um, it used to be the poster child, but, like you said, washington's not worse than California. Like they banned so much stuff. Like California was one thing, but now, like you said, threaded barrels, pistol rifle doesn't matter, you know, receiver sets, like there's so much stuff that has been banned in all these other states just within a period of a couple years, really A couple of years, really A couple of legislative sessions.
Speaker 1:It's also scary because the way they worded a lot of these laws up in Washington, the ones that I'm talking about, they are very kind of ambiguous, very vague Right Intentionally vague, and so I actually think that they're kind of setting some of these small gunshots up. And I actually think that they're kind of setting some of these small gunshots up and because when I read these laws, I interpret it like this could be taken this way pretty easily. And there's a lot of gunshots now that are, you know, and God bless their soul and I hope that they're OK and I hope that everything works out. You know, and god bless their soul and I hope that they're okay and I hope that everything works out. But you know, they're basically saying that these are replacement parts.
Speaker 1:They're so they can sell replacement barrels, replacement muzzle, brakes, replacement this, that, and I'm hoping that they're not being set up by the government to like, okay, okay, we, we come in and we audit you and you just now sold 500 AR 15 barrels this year and you know this many upper receivers and this many you know butt stocks or you know whatever. And I hope that they're not going to come down on them and like give them a fine that's unrecoverable. Yeah, like I feel like they're giving them enough rope to hang themselves and I and I hope, I hope I'm wrong, like I I really do, uh, but like I got this weird gut feeling and I hope I'm wrong that that's what they're doing and I think you're spot on.
Speaker 2:Like that's, that's, I think that's a, a play right out of the playbook. Like I think that's definitely within the realm of possibilities of what the powers that be would want yeah, because they're letting a lot of these small shops getting away, getting away with it right now.
Speaker 1:But when it first happened it was like no, you can't do this, you can't do this, you can't do this. And all of a sudden people were like oh, we think we can. Well, that gun shop's doing it, so I, nothing's happened yet. Yeah, nothing's happened yet. So I think we can get away with it too. And I just I'm praying to God right now that that's not what's happening and that maybe some lawyers are actually interpreting this thing correctly and they and they do find the legal ground for them to do that. And maybe it's just my ignorance, not knowing enough yet, but I feel like there's a trap being sprung here.
Speaker 2:So Nassim Taleb has a pretty good analogy that he uses in one of his books, and it's basically like you have this turkey that every day he goes through it gets closer, every day gets closer and closer to Thanksgiving. It's May, woke up, got some food, cool, nothing bad has happened. June comes along, every day he wakes up and nothing bad happens. And every day he gets closer and closer to Thanksgiving day, which he's going to get his neck cut off and eaten. So he gets this false sense of security that you know like. Well, for the past 364 days I've woken up every single day, nothing bad has happened. Like my situation is getting better and better until Thanksgiving day and then the ax comes. So I think that could be what's happening here.
Speaker 1:I hope not, I hope so too.
Speaker 2:I really, really, really hope not, I don't think you're wrong, though I think that's a very likely scenario, yeah, and you know.
Speaker 1:but I also think that I probably need to do more. In my community up there, you know, we're all busy, right, and that's an easy excuse, right, but when you do own a company, you are busy. Yeah, we, we, we push as hard as we can every day to take care of our employees and to move the thing forward. But, um, I think that somehow I need to carve out a little bit more time to get more involved, um I, and to figure out how to be effective. Yeah, you know, like it can't, I don't think just stand in front of the capitol screaming and yelling is the best way to get our point across. Um, I'm not the guys that do it and I've been there, I've done it with them but, like, sometimes I just don't feel like they're getting the message, and so it's like how, how do we be more effective, um, in in getting the message across, you know, in in a legal way, in a polite way? I don't think, um, I don't think that you know the guys that talk about going to violence and stuff. I'm totally against that, a hundred percent. You know, like I don't think that's the right way to do it.
Speaker 1:Um, it's figuring out the right way to approach this to where it's respectful and to get their respect and get I think it's an education thing like to get more people to understand what you know, what these firearms are, what they're for and how they're not being used Like the media pushes it out. You know what these firearms are, what they're for and how they're not being used, like the media pushes it out. You know, like, if you talk to somebody that watches CNN every day about an AR-15 and you ask them you know how many of them you know kill people in their existence? You know someone will say like one in 10. And it's like, are you kidding me?
Speaker 1:Me like it's not even in that realm. No, it's not even on the same planet. You know more people get stabbed to death and shot by ars, you know, but they don't want to. But there's just this huge misinformation, misconception that's out there, that's publicly spread. And how do we fight that? You know, like, how do we really figure out how to combat that in a smart way, to project the truth to people? And I think that's a big thing that we all got to figure out in this industry. You know, how do we convey the message, the correct message, the truth.
Speaker 3:That was going to be exactly what I was going to ask. Next is, like what can people do to actually, you know, participate in that and actually make that that change happen, become more involved, opening up those channels, uh, educating them on uh you know the truth about firearms and their role in our society? Second amendment raising strong families. You know, just just being involved in the community. I think that's uh a good place to start for a lot of people out there. You know, just doing that, I think will make a difference. I know, for me, just talking to people in my family that didn't understand a lot of that stuff and explaining it to them, um, and in a respectful way, and just kind of having that conversation, I think that, uh, that changed a few people's minds, at least in my family.
Speaker 1:So I think the key word with that is respectful. Yeah, you know, nobody likes being talked down to. Yeah, including us. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like there's yelling at somebody and like, just you're not going to win somebody over with facts. Like you can, you can try and lay out all the facts and be as logical as you can with it, but I think if somebody believes that that deeply you have to, you have to go. You have to reach them another way than through facts and logic. Like respectful discussion is definitely a very big key to it. You have to reach them another way than through facts and logic. Respectful discussion is definitely a very big key to it.
Speaker 1:There's a lot that goes into it, and if people respect you as a person, do you have more influence on their thoughts? Oh, absolutely right, absolutely so. If you're a good person and you and you hold yourself accountable and into a high standard and and people around you, they will regard you, and so your opinion or your thoughts or your conversations carry more weight with them, instead of being an ass and in trying to jam stuff down their throat and tell them they're stupid. You know there's a different approach. You know it's's a different approach. You know it's the lead by example thing.
Speaker 3:Not too many people are going to get their minds changed by being insulted.
Speaker 2:No, exactly being respectful and civil is, you know there's got to be the foundation of it. And then you're also not trying to reach the extremists. You know, like we're trying to reach the people that are in the middle, that maybe you know, that are in the middle that maybe don't really have a strong opinion either way about guns but because of the lack of knowledge they're going to defer to being on the anti-gun side of the spectrum. I guess they're going to be really close to the middle. They might be on the fence but they're going to lean this way just because of lack of knowledge. Right? So if you, being the good steward and good representation of the community, can kind of help sway them the other way through education and through civil discussion, you know, I think that's how we can get more people to our side.
Speaker 1:And you know like one thing that I always tell people, that kind of blows people away and it kind of blows me away too. You know about a trace, right? An FBI trace? Oh yeah, okay. You know about a trace, right, an FBI trace? Oh, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:So anytime a firearm gets used in a deadly crime, the FBI does a firearm trace on it. And so what they do is they look at the manufacturer's name and the serial number on that and the model number, and they go back to the manufacturer of record and they start there and they ask us where, who did you sell this firearm to? And they follow that chain of custody as far down as they can follow it until it either got stolen or it was used in the crime by the legal owner or whatever right. And so and that happens every time one's using a violent crime I make lower receivers every single day, all day long. No joke, 24 seven right now. 24 seven. I'm cutting it, I'm cutting a lower right now.
Speaker 1:And do you know how many traces I've had since I've been in business? I'm guessing probably none, zero. Is that unbelievable? Like that, like I'm not saying that something I've made hasn't been used in a in a horrible way. I, I, I would. I think that that would be a false statement, but it's not like this rampant thing. Like you know, I make, I've made thousands, and thousands and thousands of these things and I've gotten zero traces. And I'm not knocking on wood here. I'm not, I'm not saying it's not going to happen, because it will Some idiots going to get their hands on one of these things and do something stupid.
Speaker 2:Usually getting stolen and then getting sold to yeah.
Speaker 1:People do dumb things. It's a powerful tool, you know, but the narrative out there is these things are just used all the time and they're horrible and a high percentage of them are used in crime. And it's just not the case. It's not even close to the case. 99.999% of gun owners are very responsible people and these things never see anything but a closet, a gun range, a gun safe, back in the closet, back in the safe, a pickup truck.
Speaker 1:You know, they just they're just a tool and they're a good way to for families to bond and, and you know, like best memories I have are with my dad out shooting guns and building guns in the garage. Yeah, it's how we bonded. It made me who I am today, you know, and it was. It was around firearms, you know, just like some people it's around fishing, or some people it's about around going out in their boat, but whatever that is, it's building that family unit which is the most important thing we have in this country or in this world is your family unit, and some people bond around different things. Well, there's a whole community of people in this country that we bond around firearms, and I know it's weird for people in other countries that aren't into firearms to think of it that way, but it is. It's a culture here and it's an important culture. It's been here since this country has been here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I mean, the country was founded on civilians having the same guns the military has. You know that, know that was the whole revolution. And without the civilian gun ownership, you know there would have been no revolution. So it's a huge part of our culture for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's crazy times, man Indeed.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks for coming on, taking the time to sit down with us and come down here for a little bit and shoot some videos. Oh, little bit, oh man, shoot some videos and have some fun.
Speaker 1:Oh, this is cool man, your place is. I knew that you had a cool facility. I didn't know it was this cool. Thank you, it's impressive, especially when I went over to your ranges and I realized how many base 100-yard base do you have? 1,200.
Speaker 2:1,200 ranges and I realized how many bays, 100 yard base do you have, 1200 yard indoor base. That's impressive. It's the biggest in texas, biggest indoor range in texas, biggest in texas right yeah it, it is an impressive facility you have here.
Speaker 1:Congratulations, thank you. This is very, very cool and and it seems like everybody you have here working with you are top-notch. Oh, I mean, like I feel very at home here. Everybody's very welcoming and, um, you know, I again I couldn't be happier to be here and and thank you enough to you know, just come hang out with you guys for a few days and shoot some videos and, um, I think this is really cool. I'm looking forward to where we go from here.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, thank you all for watching, listening, consuming this. However, you chose to, please go check out Rick and the crew over there at Icon Defense, velocity Defense, and then Killer Innovations as well, all the stuff that they have going on. We're going to have some more videos coming out on the YouTube channel, so if you're not watching this on YouTube, go over there and check it out. We're going to have a lot of different product videos from Rick and those will kind of be coming out here at some point. I don't know when this is going to air. I don't know when the other ones are going to air, but it'll be there sometime. Anyways, we appreciate y'all watching. Yeah, y'all have a good one and we will see you next time.